Tag: Councillor Les Rowlands

Councillor John Salter “when you make a decision you’ve got to do it behind locked doors”

Councillor John Salter “when you make a decision you’ve got to do it behind locked doors”

Councillor John Salter “when you make a decision you’ve got to do it behind locked doors”

                       

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Standards and Constitutional Oversight Committee meeting of the 3rd July 2014

Last Thursday Wirral Council’s Standards and Constitutional Oversight Committee met and there was an interesting discussion by councillors (and the independent members) on agenda item 4 (the work programme for 2014/15) and its Appendix (terms of reference of the Standards and Constitutional Oversight Working Group.

This transcript below starts at about 14:38 in the video above. Apologies for any poor sound quality in the video, but microphones weren’t provided to the Standards and Constitutional Oversight Committee that evening.

SURJIT TOUR
One example is the issue about filming, the regulations around filming, blogging, tweeting has now become operative and will be operative by the end of this month. So that’s expected there are a number of areas where we need to ensure the constitution reflects some of those changes which are reported… so those are the key areas I’ve suggested which obviously you can add if you confirm areas of work which you feel are necessary around the committee’s remit.

COUNCILLOR LES ROWLANDS
I just have a comment. Over the years I’ve noticed that there’s been less and less public coming in to see our Councils and so forth. This has a bearing on culture as well because when you’ve got members of the public there observing the Council meeting then you know bode for somebody to start shouting all kinds of obscenities across the Chamber. So I think the level of etiquette when I first started as a councillor here was much, much higher than it is today. I think in my own mind that’s part of it because the public was involved.

Is there any way that we can err whether it’s publicising, I realise we can’t drag them in off the street but is there any way that we can work on a project where we can actually start to try and engage in meetings. I mean it’s a great start by having independents but you know participation in the Council Chamber itself ie bringing the public in to view what we’re doing. I just think it’s really sad that that has dropped off and we seem to have lost this connection with our public. We do have our own constituencies but they don’t seem to know what goes on in this Council.

COUNCILLOR MOIRA MCLAUGHLIN
One of the things that came out very strongly in terms of the survey that I’m going to talk about was for Members, as I said open and accountable to backbench Members errm was that one of the ways full Council operates, notwithstanding that and I suppose we’re all guilty at some time or another of that behaviour, absolutely I put my hands up to that, but all of us felt that actually that the way full Council behaves and the idea of a that first one was just to re establish things like standing up when the Mayor comes in, those sort of things that have fallen by the way.

… not being the Chair as I need to be, he or she has that, it’s that kind of very errm basic respect really for first of all for the authority of the Chair or the Mayor, Mayor as Chair and then each other and it’s a culture but if we put our minds to work on that basis, then possibly we wouldn’t be subject to criticism as well, but certainly we wouldn’t be embarrassed to see that happening but it’s a chicken and egg isn’t it?

COUNCILLOR ROB GREGSON
The other Les, I think the timing of what you’ve just said is perfect as well, because in the Mayor’s speech he did say about it, the role of councillors and you know you should revisit how we market ourselves, how we get together and go out. Errm, I think I’ve said about it but I’ll just finish with students, full-time students and you know I was at university talking to many of the younger students who were studying politics and they weren’t even aware that you could just walk in to public meetings and I’m talking about Liverpool, you know we met outside and they drew me on what do you mean, the back cleared area at public meetings, they weren’t aware of the public gallery and obviously that could be an area we could easily promote.

COUNCILLOR BILL DAVIES (CHAIR)
I think that’s a good idea, I mean we could go to colleges and also … I’ve seen colleges go into art galleries and some I’ve seen them … why can’t they come into the Town Hall?

COUNCILLOR BRUCE BERRY
Yes, a bit more on the second point in relation to all that. While I was canvassing, errm I did go up and people were asking me if I could give if some, how many of the meetings weren’t open to the public? People do want to get involved and it’s a case of publicising it, it’s easily done in the press and people do want to attend, I’m sure we’ve even thought about that.

COUNCILLOR BILL DAVIES (CHAIR)
There’s a flip side to that, people might come along and see all the members seated in the House of Commons, Councillor Salter.

COUNCILLOR JOHN SALTER
Yeah, I mean the biggest attendance of anyone from outside is either at licensing or planning and that’s when and I’ve been on both. I’ve been where on planning where we’ve got these two rooms open and absolutely chock a block and Committee Room 1, so you know it’s only when there’s something happening really that they want to come along to, otherwise like anything it’s apathy, they’ll go ahead and do it anyway and that’s the attitude, we don’t.

You know we sit down and we do this planning and on licensing and we have one of the biggest arguments going, behind locked doors, when you make a decision you’ve got to do it behind locked doors to give you a sufficient chance to discuss.

COUNCILLOR BILL DAVIES (CHAIR)
I think as well as I remember, when I came on the Council it was electric the atmosphere it was. Errm, it was almost intimidating really and … the Council things have changed, I mean sometimes I think remarks like we’re watching paint dry and that’s true because things have changed, there’s not a lot of debate going on and if you think about by the time they have question time, then question the Cabinet and so on and before that we … have notices of motion, so things have changed now since I’ve come on.

COUNCILLOR PATRICIA WILLIAMS
If the general public know that the Cabinet is going to make a particular decision, they will turn up and they will make an issue about it and they will make representations about that.

They will also at full Council, if Cabinet have made a decision which they disagree with, you wait and see what happens about Lyndale, other people have clearly came and they speak very strongly about it and there have been times, I’ve been a councillor since 1987, so there’ve been a lot of things happening during that time, but I’ve had to fight my way in to this Town Hall on numerous occasions over these years but I believe now the committee system that we have, with the Cabinet and the scrutiny split and people think it’s a waste of time turning up and once Cabinet have made a decision it is very, very unusual for that to be changed.

So people think ‘what’s the point?’ and once they, once they’ve been here and they’ve been up in the public gallery, when their particular issue of concern has been dealt with. It’s, it’s, they’ve got to really want to be here because it’s not so easy to hear from the public gallery especially when councillors are shouting at each other and being you know disrespectful, so I think you know, we councillors have got a big responsibility to treat each other with respect and also then in mind if members of the public are here we should behave ourselves to allow people to listen, speak clearly and make sure they are welcomed into the Town Hall and you know they’re able to be here, it’s a privilege to be here but it’s also their right you know so we’ve got to make it welcoming and positively encourage people to come in.

Of course the Youth Parliament is a good way to encourage young people isn’t it to know about Council about how they can turn up at any time you know to witness what goes on. So I think a lot of it is in our hands to do something about.

COUNCILLOR BILL DAVIES (CHAIR)
Well, people, well that’s goes for our Labour Party and the party over there, we don’t do business shouting and screaming at each other especially at Council meetings and that’s the way it is. I think all sides of the Council, all parties agree on that.

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Mayor of Wirral Cllr Mitchell “I’m like a good quality pair of curtains, I like to pull myself together very quickly”

Mayor of Wirral Cllr Mitchell “I’m like a good quality pair of curtains, I like to pull myself together very quickly”

Mayor of Wirral Cllr Mitchell “I’m like a good quality pair of curtains, I like to pull myself together very quickly”

                          

Left to right newly elected Mayor of Wirral Councillor Steve Foulkes, former Mayor of Wirral Councillor Dave Mitchell
Left to right newly elected Mayor of Wirral Councillor Steve Foulkes, former Mayor of Wirral Councillor Dave Mitchell

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There were plenty of interesting things said at the Annual Meeting of Wirral Council held at the Floral Pavilion. The Wirral Globe article and Liverpool Echo both concentrate on the voting by councillors on Councillor Steve Foulkes’ nomination for Mayor by the Cabinet.

Below is a transcript starting at the start of the meeting.

CIVIC MAYOR’S ATTENDANT
High Sheriff, ladies and gentlemen, will you please be upstanding for the Mayor of Wirral Councillor Dave Mitchell?

MAYOR OF WIRRAL COUNCILLOR DAVE MITCHELL
Please be seated, thank you.

As part of the agenda for tonight’s meeting, are there any declarations of interest?

Are there any apologies for absence?

COUNCILLOR BILL DAVIES
Yes, Mr Mayor. Two apologies for absence, Councillor ??? and Councillor ??? ???.

MAYOR OF WIRRAL COUNCILLOR DAVE MITCHELL
Thank you for that. The first business is the election of the Mayor. I’ve preempted myself, I’m awfully sorry. This is, it’s a year and a little bit since I’ve started my Mayoralty and we’ve changed the constitution, literally thinking thirty years being a councillor I’ll be able to do this, it’s going to be easy but well the Council has decided to change the way we organise and do things. So, I’ll move on. Move on again. It is. Thank you.

I will now ask the assembled Members and visitors to join me in standing and holding a minutes silence in memory of late Alderman Councillor Kate Wood. I’d like everybody to stand.

Thank you very much indeed, please be seated. New business (laughs) I got one bit right anyway. Yes, good evening ladies and gentlemen, elected Members, new Members. We’ll be doing that part in the Council in the second part which is next week.

In my final address as the Mayor, I would like to say good evening to everyone of course and then start off by saying I’m like a good quality pair of curtains, I like to pull myself together very quickly. You will notice, those Members that were here and those visitors that were here last year I became very emotional in my acceptance speech as Mayor. I lost the plot a few times during that evening and I’ve continued on the same vein this evening.

Hopefully from now on it’ll all be downhill but what I would like to say is it’s been an absolute honour to represent the Wirral for this last year. Sue and I (the Mayoress) have really, really fully enjoyed every aspect of it and so much so that we’ve actually attended approximately over five hundred and forty-one engagements as Mayor and Mayoress and we were delighted to see the varied aspects that we have on the Wirral.

It was amazing to see so many wonderful people doing so many wonderful things and that is people working in the communities, charities and we were really heartened by the wealth and support given by so many people to our communities and charities. The skills and the nature of such diversity acquired in all aspects of life, they really came to the fore. I am really proud, Sue and I, we’ve said this for a few times throughout the year about how proud we are to be the [Mayor and] Mayoress of Wirral. The people that we meet on the peninsula are just absolutely fantastic.

We should and I’m sure you will agree with us be proud of the amazing talents that we have here on the Wirral. These include all sorts of things including sports, art, acting, music and can we also thank the parents and guardians of lots of our young people and students in the Wirral? Sue and I had the great opportunity to invite many young groups of people into the Council to give them an insight what we actually do and what we are and I was delighted to bring some of the young people into the Town Hall and see what we’re all about. A big thank you to parents and guardians and helpers in bringing those children into the Town Hall.

I’d also like to thank the support we’ve received from so many members of the council staff and elected Members in our year. They really have shown their loyalty to the Mayoralty in helping at many of the events that have taken place in front and behind the scenes. Their hard works given that’s been so much appreciated by Sue and I. Our charities would never have had the possibility to receive so much money without the dedication and work that was done by so many.

I’d like to thank people but in no particular order, everybody deserves the highest honour that I can possibly thank them for, they really do work very well for us. I will start with our secretary Sue Carroll. Thank you to Sue and Sonja for all their hard work. Also to Barbara Margaret, and Margaret, a special thanks to Carol Jackson who unfortunately can’t be here this evening. She absolutely works her socks off for the Mayoralty, I’m really, really impressed by the amount of work that she does.

We’ve also been greatly helped, especially with our charities by all those people and as I said members of the group. I’ve got to say George Davies thanks very much, George who we all mentioned has been absolutely wonderful in helping the Mayoralty in many ways this year. A personal thanks from Sue and I to you. Thank you very much George.

I’d also like to thank Beth Glover who’s been my chaplain this year and this is where I pause because the one thing I would like to do is to thank our cadet of the year and who started as Sergeant Charlotte Steel. I’m pleased to say is now the rank of what?

CADET OF THE YEAR
Flight Sergeant.

MAYOR OF WIRRAL COUNCILLOR DAVE MITCHELL
Yes, absolutely. She’s now Flight Sergeant Steel. Sue and I were really impressed by the courtesy you gave us and the hard work that you put in supporting us through our year. So can I ask you to come up and receive an award for it?

Thank you very much. I think she’s going to take a picture of us both.

Mayor of Wirral Cllr Dave Mitchell awards the Cadet of the Year Award (2014)
Mayor of Wirral Cllr Dave Mitchell awards the Cadet of the Year Award (2014)

Excellent, thank you very much, if you could go and sit down. Thank you.

Sue and I started our mayoralty on a really top-notch event. We were very fortunate to start our mayoralty the year, the weekend of the commemoration of the Battle of the Atlantic. It was an absolutely wonderful occasion, a beautiful weekend. I’m very proud to say that the sponsor of that weekend was one of our major companies Cammell Lairds and a great big thank you to them. It really was a wonderful event. I can’t go on and say how many things that we’ve done, I’ve already said we’ve done over five hundred. It’s been absolutely wonderful.

Of those five hundred, I can say I only asked for three. That was to visit my old school and a friend of mine and to visit two of our charities that we’ve supported this year. The rest, the general public and the good people of the Wirral support the mayoralty and they asked the Mayor to be over from the Mayor’s department and I’m really supportive and I’m thankful to those people. I can’t leave out Nick. Nick, Carl and Paul who’ve been the Mayor’s attendants throughout that year. They’ve done an absolutely wonderful job in supporting us.

I know Nick and Paul’s been here for a while, it’s a temporary part and Carl’s just come in and done it for a short while. Nick I would like to thank you for all the great work that you’ve done for Sue and I in supporting us throughout this year. We’ve been to many, many occasions, many events and like everybody when you come into a role, you just don’t know what it’s about and you need a little bit of guidance and help and Nick has been the stalwart in that in helping us throughout our year making sure we address the right people (I get that wrong sometimes) in the right manner. Dame Morgan will not forget me for calling her the Lord High Sheriff but there we are.

Yes, Nick’s guidance it goes beyond just the normal thing of taking us to events and getting us there at the right time, it’s the ability to move us in the right direction, to talk to the people that need to be spoken to and it’s also the guidance in taking us away from the people that actually you don’t need to talk to and finally Steve and Les you’ll find that out when your year comes. There are some very lovely people on the Wirral peninsula who once they get the ear of the Mayor will not stop talking so that’s beneficial in both ways.

So Sue and I would like to thank you Nick, you really are the stalwart in what you’ve done for us. So much so in the conversation with the Lord Lieutenant Dame Lorna Muirhead only a few weeks back she remarked on, “How would you manage without him?” and that’s it. “I’m sure you’ll find somebody to replace him but for the time being there’s no one as good as you.” So Nick thank you very much.

I’d also like as I said last but not least as I mention in my column every week in the newspaper, I always say about the people that we meet, the wonderful things that we’ve done but the one thing that’s really stood out for Sue and I this year is the amount of work that’s done by so many young people on the Wirral and the press is not very good. There are all sorts of news story, it never gives a good news story and we’ve been absolutely astounded in the main by the amount of work that’s been done by the young people on this peninsula.

Thousands and thousands of pounds have been raised by different groups each year and without any need for publicity in any way. They just get on and do the job. We were really amazed and we are absolutely delighted and we believe the peninsula is in safe hands with all those wonderful young people that we’ve got on our peninsula.

I’ve mentioned the mayoralty and the one thing that it is, is once you get into the role of being the Mayor, you realise how important it is to our communities and our communities really do love the Mayor. I’m repeating myself and I know I’ve already said it, five hundred plus engagements where our communities want the Mayoralty to be involved. I hope it is not diminished in any way in future years.

I would like to say in passing that I wish my predecessor, oh no the incoming Mayor and Mayoress. My predecessor Gerry I’m delighted to see you here. At the end of your Mayoral year you weren’t too well health wise but I’m delighted to see how well you are at the moment, I’m really delighted to see you here, but no the incoming Mayor and Mayoress Steve and Elaine I wish you all the joy and success. I know you will enjoy it as much as Sue and I have done. Ladies and gentlemen thank you very much.

Now I’ll turn the page and actually get on to it. The first business is the election of the Civic Mayor. May I have the nominations for the office of Civic Mayor for the Metropolitan Borough of Wirral?

Continues at How did Councillor Foulkes get the nickname ‘Mad Max’? & ‘Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in for me!’.
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Public meetings for Wirral Council, Merseytravel and a HoC select committee on how much Chief Officers are paid

Public meetings for Wirral Council, Merseytravel and a HoC select committee on how much Chief Officers are paid

Public meetings for Wirral Council, Merseytravel and a HoC select committee on how much Chief Officers are paid

                                                  

Below is a list of upcoming public meetings & other matters involving local government happening this week. Most are local, but the House of Common’s Communities and Local Government Select Committee on Chief Officer’s pay in local government should be available to watch live on Parliament’s website.
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Date:Monday 2nd June 2014
Time: 7.00pm
Public Body/Committee: Wirral Council
Venue: Floral Pavilion, Marine Promenade, New Brighton, Wirral, Merseyside, CH45 2JS

Type of meeting (Annual Meeting of the Council Part 1)
Agenda
1. Declarations of Interest
2. Civic Mayor’s Announcements
3. Election of Civic Mayor 2014/15 (the Cabinet’s recommendation is Cllr Steve Foulkes)
4. Appoint a Deputy Civic Mayor 2014/15 (the Cabinet’s recommendation is Cllr Les Rowlands)
5. Adjournment to 6.15pm on Monday 9th June 2014

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Date: Wednesday 4th June 2014
Time: 2.00pm
Public Body/Committee: Merseytravel Committee of Liverpool City Region Combined Authority
Venue: Authority Chamber, Merseytravel Offices, No 1. Mann Island, Liverpool, L3 1BP
Agenda & reports
1. Apologies for Absence
2. Declarations of Interest
3. Minutes of the last meeting
4. High Speed 2 Action Plan June 2014 Update
5. Rail Devolution Update
6. Liverpool City Region: Long Term Rail Strategy

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Date: Wednesday 4th June 2014
Time: 4:15pm
Public Body/Committee: Communities and Local Government Select Committee/House of Commons
Venue: The Thatcher Room, Portcullis House
Subject: Local Government Chief Officers’ remuneration
Witnesses: Graham Farrant, Chief Executive of Thurrock Council and London Borough of Barking & Dagenham and Maggie Rae, Corporate Director, Wiltshire Council; Mike Cooke, Chief Executive, London Borough of Camden, Councillor Sarah Hayward, Leader, London Borough of Camden, Paul Martin, Chief Executive, London Borough of Wandsworth and Councillor Ravi Govindia, Leader, London Borough of Wandsworth; Martin Tucker, Joint Managing Partner, Gatenby Sanderson and Peter Smith, Director, Hay Group

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Date: Thursday 5th June 2014
Time: 10am
Venue: Birkenhead County Court, 76 Hamilton St, Birkenhead CH41 5EN
Irving -v- Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council (Fast Track Trial)
Case number: 3YQ53624
*Note sometimes parties reach an out of court settlement before a trial in which case the trial doesn’t go ahead.

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Date: Friday 6th June 2014
Time: 10.00am
Public Body/Committee: Licensing Act 2003 subcommittee of Wirral Council
Agenda and reports
1. Appointment of Chair
2. Declarations of Interest
3. Application for a Premises Licence – Michaels of Moreton
4. Any other business

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For Whom the Tunnel Tolls

For Whom the Tunnel Tolls

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For Whom the Tunnel Tolls

                   

Mersey Tunnel tolls have been decided annually by Merseytravel (Merseyside Integrated Transport Authority), however the Merseyside Integrated Transport Authority ceased to exist at the start of this month and was replaced by the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority (also known by its legal name which is the Halton, Knowsley, Liverpool, St Helens, Sefton and Wirral Combined Authority). The existing Merseytravel representatives from Wirral Council (along with representatives from the other Merseyside Councils) sit on the Merseytravel Committee of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority with the addition of two representatives from Halton.

Wirral Council’s Regeneration and Environment Policy and Performance Committee discussed a motion about the Mersey Tunnel tolls, which had been referred to it by the Mayor at the Wirral Council meeting of the 10th March 2014. Prior to recent changes to Wirral Council’s constitution such policy motions were discussed and voted on by a meeting of all of Wirral’s councillors (of which there are sixty-six). The Regeneration and Environment Committee has only fifteen Wirral Council councillors on it.

The motion about the Mersey Tunnel tolls was proposed by Councillor Les Rowlands (a Conservative councillor for Heswall ward whose term of office ends this year and will probably be standing soon for reelection). Councillor Les Rowlands is also one of four Wirral Council representatives on Merseytravel (the others representing Wirral Council are Councillor Steve Foulkes, Councillor Ron Abbey and Councillor John Salter). The motion was seconded by Councillor Andrew Hodson (who is also a Conservative councillor in Heswall ward) and a copy is below.

(1) Council regrets the recent tunnel toll increases for all toll classes forced through by the Labour-led Integrated Transport Authority.

(2) Council notes that since the introduction of the 2004 Mersey Tunnels Act, sponsored by former Labour MP Claire Curtis-Thomas and supported by Labour Members throughout its passage through Parliament, Merseytravel has accrued over £40 million in surpluses which have been used on their pet transport schemes and vanity projects.

(3) Council also notes that Merseytravel have squandered large amounts of money as can be evidenced by the £70 million failed tram scheme colloquially known as ‘Line 1 to Nowhere’ and its extravagance in occupying a half empty building at No 1 Mann Island.

Therefore Council believes

(a) The consistent increases year on year is damaging Wirral’s economy putting further pressure on motorists and businesses.

(b) Council recognises such increases place a greater strain on tunnel users who have to travel to and from work placing an unfair tax burden on Wirral residents.

(c) Council recognises discount toll schemes/free crossings for local residents already exist in other parts of the country and while recognising that fast tag users benefit from a discount, Council believes that regular users should be rewarded with a local discount scheme over and above that afforded by use of the fast tag such as that announced for the Mersey Gateway Bridge of a “local user discount scheme” with up to 300 free journeys per year.

Council therefore requests the Leader of the Council and the Chief Executive to write to the Chief Executive/Director General of Merseytravel requesting an urgent meeting to discuss: if and how the Mersey Tunnels can be reinstated back into the national road network and Tunnel Tolls abolished.

If that is not possible how a ‘local user discount scheme’ over and above that which already exists through the Fast Tag can be implemented to ease the burden on the hard pressed motorists of Wirral.

Video of the first twenty-five minutes of the meeting can be watched above.

The meeting started with Councillor Steve Foulkes asking for legal advice from the “Borough Solicitor” (who is Surjit Tour who wasn’t present but Colin Hughes was present to offer legal advice to committee members) on whether he should declare just a personal interest in the Mersey Tunnel tolls agenda item as a member of the Merseyside Integrated Transport Authority*.

Councillor Steve Foulkes also pointed out that Councillor Les Rowlands was also a member of Merseytravel and that he “did state he [Councillor Les Rowlands] could take part in the debate”** and asked for clarification over the nature of the interest.

* The Merseyside Integrated Transport Authority had in fact ceased to exist as it had been abolished eight days previously by s.6 of The Halton, Knowsley, Liverpool, St Helens, Sefton and Wirral Combined Authority Order 2014. What Councillor Steve Foulkes probably meant instead was an interest arising as he is a member of the Merseytravel Committee of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority.

** Whether Councillor Les Rowlands took part isn’t a decision for Councillor Steve Foulkes to make. Councillor Les Rowlands isn’t part of the Regeneration and Environment Policy and Performance Committee but as the proposer of the motion Standing Order 7(6) applies which states “A member of the Council who has moved a motion which has been referred to any committee shall be given notice of the meeting at which it is to be considered. The member shall have the right to attend the meeting and an opportunity of explaining the motion.”

Colin Hughes who forgot to turn on his microphone when replying said, “Yes, I’d declare that if I was you I’d do that.” However Colin Hughes didn’t state whether it was a personal or prejudicial interest, just that Councillor Foulkes had to declare an interest.

The Chair asked if anyone was subject to a party whip (no one replied that they were). The Chair then said the next item was “minutes of the last meeting which was held on the 10th March”.*

*The Regeneration and Environment Policy and Performance Committee hadn’t met on the 10th March, only Cabinet and a meeting of full Council met on the 10th March.

The Chair said they would change the order slightly and have the second notice of motion (on the Mersey Tunnel Tolls) first. He then said (in relation to Cllr Les Rowlands), “I think I’m right, he was here but he’s not here now but Councillor Les Rowlands doesn’t wish to speak to that.” Other councillors drew Cllr Alan Brighouse’s attention to the fact that Councillor Les Rowlands was in fact sitting on the front row with cries of “He’s here” to which Councillor Alan Brighouse replied, “He’s here is he? I can’t see him!”.

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