Martins (389 Upton Road) ask for an alcohol licence; the Merseyside Police Sergeant insists video of a public meeting is erased

Martins (389 Upton Road) ask for an alcohol licence;the @MerseyPolice Sgt insists video of a public meeting is erased

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Licensing Act 2003 subcommittee 8th May 2014 Martins 389 Upton Road, Noctorum (Martin McColl Limited) Councillor Mike Sullivan (Labour), Councillor Steve Niblock (Chair, Labour), Councillor Mike Hornby (Conservative)
Licensing Act 2003 subcommittee (Wirral Council) (Wallasey Town Hall, Committee Room 3) 8th May 2014 Martins, 389 Upton Road, Noctorum (Martin McColl Limited) Councillor Mike Sullivan (Labour), Councillor Steve Niblock (Chair, Labour), Councillor Mike Hornby (Conservative)

Martins (389 Upton Road) ask for an alcohol licence; the Merseyside Police Sergeant insists video of a public meeting is erased

                         

Sometimes public meetings take such a bizarre turn, I couldn’t do justice to what happened at them without providing a transcript. However you first need to know a little about this “public meeting”. As detailed in the published report a application for a licence (from Martin McColl Limited) to sell alcohol at a newsagents at Martins, 389 Upton Road, Noctorum (which is in Claughton ward although it is across the road from Bidston & St James ward and very near Upton ward) had been received by Wirral Council. Martins don’t currently sell alcohol and the shop is run as a newsagents/grocery store.

The application was to sell alcohol from 6am to 11pm (seven days a week) for consumption off the premises. There had been a representation from a local business and a petition signed by ninety-four people against the application being granted. Both the petition and representation related to existing problems with youths in the area of the newsagents.

Merseyside Police were also objecting to the application on the basis of a current problem with antisocial behaviour in the area of the newsagents and the likelihood that this would increase if the licence was granted. Another ground of objection from Merseyside Police was that they didn’t feel that the applicant had sufficiently demonstrated how crime and disorder would be prevented at the premises in the future should the licence be granted.

Unusually a representation had also been received from Wirral Council’s Environmental Health department which related to the prevention of crime and disorder and public safety.

The meeting was supposed to start at 2pm, although it didn’t. The councillors and council officers were in the room at 2pm, but they seem to insist on having a long talk with each other before the meeting officially starts. For some peculiar reason (which is different to all other public meetings held at Wallasey Town Hall) they insist everybody comes in at once and won’t even allow you in the room five minutes a few minutes before the meeting starts (which is necessary to set up a tripod and turn a camera on in time for the meeting to start). I’ve asked a Wirral Council officer why, they just state because of the regulations. There’s nothing in the regulations that states everyone has to go into a public meeting at once, in fact the regulations just state the hearing has to be held in public (subject to Regulation 14(2)).

Anyway after what was a long time of waiting of about fifteen minutes everyone was asked to come in (which takes a few minutes in itself as there was me, Leonora, two petitioners, Sgt Barrigan (Merseyside Police), the applicant’s representative, the “area manager” and a Wirral Council officer working in Environmental Health). The meeting started and here is a transcript. Officially the first two items are appointment of Chair and declarations of interest.

COUNCILLOR STEVE NIBLOCK (Chair)
I’m Councillor Steve Niblock and I’m the Chair of the Subcommittee this afternoon as are my councillor colleagues who will be determining the application. Could I first ask that all mobile phones are switched off or turned to silent please? Thank you and also before we open it’s not the planned fire drill so if the alarm does go off go out of those doors, turn right immediately and assemble in the car park over the road, ok?

There is an issue that has been raised a number of times within the Council with regards to filming of committee meetings and therefore I need to ask all those present if they consent to being filmed and if not errm, the reasons where they do not wish to be filmed and then it’s up to the Committee to make a decision with regards to that particular recommendation.

So, the issue being round if we could introduce ourselves, and then we could deal with that ..

MARGARET O’DONNELL
Chair, sorry to interrupt, just I think the film is running now, so that might defeat the purpose.

COUNCILLOR STEVE NIBLOCK (Chair)
OK, is it possible to pause that film?

JOHN BRACE
OK.

END OF TRANSCRIPT OF PART ONE

The applicant’s representative raised an objection to the meeting being filmed and said he was at the meeting with the Area Manager. He said he had not been told about the filming issue before the meeting and had not received instructions on this from his client.

Sergeant Barrigan of Merseyside Police said he had no objections to the meeting being filmed. The Wirral Council officer from environmental health said he had no objections to being filmed. The petitioners said they had no objection to being filmed.

The Chair asked Merseyside Police, the petitioners, the Wirral Council officer from Environmental Health and the public to leave whilst the councillors received advice from their legal adviser on the filming issue.

=======================================================================================================
Everyone waited outside in the corridor. Margaret O’Donnell came out and spoke with the applicant’s representative out of earshot. After talking with Margaret O’Donnell the applicant’s representative talked with Sergeant Barrigan about police officers wearing cameras. Sergeant Barrigan said in the corridor that he didn’t wear a camera or body armour as both pieces of kit would slow him down if he was chasing after a suspect and put him at a disadvantage.

Eventually after a long period of time Merseyside Police, the petitioners, the Wirral Council officer from Environmental Health and the public were invited back in to Committee Room 3.
=======================================================================================================

COUNCILLOR STEVE NIBLOCK (Chair)
Once the errm the Committee has decided whether or not to make this meeting in camera.

EITHER APPLICANT’S REPRESENTATIVE OR AREA MANAGER
There are two issues that cause me concern in relation to the errm, to the errm, to the errm, filming, not knowing what would happen to the film afterwards. Personally there is a matter which is referred to in two of the representations, more than one, errm, which is, errm, in two of the representations, which is currently I think it’s a matter before the courts in relation to those two issues affecting business. I’m not sure what questions you want to ask, in relation to that, but it’s not a matter that I have confidence on. Others the potential for prejudice if widely reported it could prejudice of that matter.

The second errm, is that, one, arising from that I have assumed that on were there any questions regarding security at this, these particular premises err as a result of that other issue which we believe err will address some of the concerns that were expressed, hopefully all those concerns that were expressed by Environmental Health and again that going into the public domain it would potentially defeat the the the security element so on that basis you will adjudicate the matter based on our concern that that could leak into the wider public domain. So for those two reasons around, I would prefer not to do it. Obviously it’s a determination for the Committee to decide on the regulations on what would be the overall regulation that would cover the matter. I would prefer that the matter wasn’t recorded and reported externally.

COUNCILLOR STEVE NIBLOCK (Chair)
OK, Sergeant Barrigan, do you have any other objections or a view errm with regard to this matter being an exempt item?

SERGEANT BARRIGAN (Merseyside Police)
I think the point Mr Grant makes in relation to the potential sub judice issue is valid, although it’s not a prosecution errm that is being conducted by Merseyside Police. Errm, the other issue in relation to security I think is more valid. The enforcement action that is being conducted by Environmental Health resulted out from some issues in relation to security that is not subject to the representations and some proposals from Mr. Grant and his guys and I don’t think it’s appropriate that that information goes into the public domain because it could muck things up in the future errm and on reflection taking that into consideration I would request that the Committee hold it in camera.

COUNCILLOR STEVE NIBLOCK (Chair)
OK?

Mr ???? (Environmental Health)
We’ve established that.

COUNCILLOR STEVE NIBLOCK (Chair)
OK, that’s closed, now there there’s no one else objecting? I’m going to ask for another adjournment now.

=======================================================================================================

Merseyside Police, the petitioners, the Wirral Council officer from Environmental Health and the public left to the corridor leaving the three councillors with some Wirral Council officers. After a long wait, people were invited back in (for the third time!).
=======================================================================================================

When everyone returned, the Chair Councillor Steve Niblock said that they had heard representations from the applicant and Merseyside Police and were excluding the public (see regulation 14(2) from the rest of the subcommittee meeting due to court proceedings.

For the purposes of this decision (see regulation 14(3) Sergeant Barrigan, the petitioners, the applicant’s representative and the area manager are all classed as “members of the public” and should have left. However they didn’t. Leonora and I proceeded to the door only to find my way blocked by Sergeant Barrigan insisting that before I left (since the redesign of Wallasey Town Hall Committee Room 3 has only one way in and out) that I delete the video footage on my camera of the public meeting! I deleted the second clip but refused to delete the first. Sergeant Barrigan wouldn’t let us leave until he got the ok from Councillor Steve Niblock that this was alright! I wonder if after we left Sergeant Barrigan (as is recommended) made a note of this conversation (conducted loud enough that everyone in the room could hear) in his notebook and if so what he put in these notes! A transcript of the second deleted video clip is above. This is a letter from 2010 Andrew Trotter, Chief Constable of the ACPO Advisory Group. I will quote from the relevant parts:

“There have been a number of recent instances highlighted in the press where officers have detained photographers and deleted images from their cameras. I seek your support in reminding your officers and staff that they should not prevent anyone from taking photographs in public. This applies equally to members of the media and public seeking to record images, who do not need a permit to photograph or film in public places. ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officer’s) guidance is as follows:

  • There are no powers prohibiting the taking of photographs, film or digital images in a public place. Therefore members of the public and press should not be prevented from doing so.
  • We need to cooperate with the media and amateur photographers. They play a vital role as their images help us identify criminals.
  • We must acknowledge that citizen journalism is a feature of modern life and police officers are now photographed and filmed more than ever.
  • Unnecessarily restricting photography, whether for the casual tourist or professional is unacceptable and it undermines public confidence in the police service.
  • Once an image has been recorded, the police have no power to delete or confiscate it without a court order.

If you require further guidance please refer to the ACPO website or contact my Staff Officer Robin Edwards at robin.edwards@btp.pnn.police.uk.”

I know this ACPO guidance was agreed at a national level, but does anybody know of any locally agreed policy of Merseyside Police that applies to the situation of being instructed by a police officer to delete video footage from a camera without a court order? Should I keep a copy of Andrew Trotter’s letter on me for future meetings and will politicians just use the reason of excluding the public from a public meeting to circumvent the regulations in the Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 (which will have the force of law at some point in the next few weeks) which place a legal requirement on local councils to permit filming at their public meetings?

I am reminded of rule 1 of the National Union of Journalists Code of Conduct which states “A journalist:

1. At all times upholds and defends the principle of media freedom, the right of freedom of expression and the right of the public to be informed.”

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Does the new law on filming public meetings apply to police and crime panels meetings in England?

Does the new law on filming public meetings apply to police and crime panels meetings in England?

Does the new law on filming public meetings apply to police and crime panels meetings in England?

                                    

Richard Taylor asks me if the changes to legislation that will happen when the Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 becomes law will apply to public meetings of the police and crime panels.

1. The Police and Crime Panels (Application of Local Authority Enactments) Regulations 2012 came into force on 22nd November 2012. In these regulations, a police and crime panel (in England) is called an English Part 3 panel.

2. Regulation 4 of The Police and Crime Panels (Application of Local Authority Enactments) Regulations 2012 states “The enactments listed in Part 2 of the Schedule apply in relation to an English Part 3 panel and the members of such a panel.” Part 2 s.10 of the Schedule lists “Part VA of, and Schedule 12A to, the Local Government Act 1972 (access to meetings and documents of certain authorities, committees and sub-committees).”

3. Regulation 6 of The Police and Crime Panels (Application of Local Authority Enactments) Regulations 2012 states:

In their application by virtue of regulations 3 to 5, the enactments listed in Parts 1 to 3 of the Schedule have effect as if —

(a) the functions of the panel were functions of the relevant local authority (in a single-authority police area) or the relevant local authorities (in a multi-authority police area);
(b) the panel were a committee of the relevant local authority (in a single-authority police area) or a joint committee of the relevant local authorities (in a multi-authority police area), appointed for the purpose of discharging those functions under section 102(1) of the Local Government Act 1972(1);
(c) a councillor panel member were serving on such a committee (in a single authority police area) or joint committee (in a multi-authority police area) in the member’s capacity as a councillor; and
(d) an independent panel member were a member of such a committee (in a single-authority police area) or a member of, and representing the host authority on, such a joint committee (in a multi-authority police area), and entitled to vote on any question that falls to be decided at a meeting of the committee or joint-committee.

4. The Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 when it has the force of law, makes amendments to the part of the Local Government Act 1972 which deals with public meetings:

Amendment of the Local Government Act 1972

4. (1) Section 100A of the 1972 Act (admission to meetings of principal councils) is amended as follows.

(2) After subsection (5) insert—

“(5A) Where the public are excluded from a meeting of a principal council in England under subsection (2) or (4), the council may also prevent any person from reporting on the meeting using methods—

(a) which can be used without that person’s presence at the meeting, and
(b) which enable persons not present at the meeting to see or hear the proceedings at the meeting as it takes place or later.”
(3) In subsection (6), at the beginning of paragraph (c) insert “subject to subsection (7D),”.

(4) In subsection (7), at the beginning insert “Subject to subsection (7A)”.

(5) After subsection (7) insert—

“(7A) While a meeting of a principal council in England is open to the public, any person attending is to be permitted to report on the meeting.

(7B) Subsection (7A) does not require a principal council in England to permit oral reporting or oral commentary on a meeting as it takes place if the person reporting or providing the commentary is present at the meeting.

(7C) A person attending a meeting of a principal council in England for the purpose of reporting on the meeting must, so far as practicable, be afforded reasonable facilities for doing so.

(7D) Subsection (7C) applies in place of subsection (6)(c) in the case of a principal council in England.

(7E) Any person who attends a meeting of a principal council in England for the purpose of reporting on the meeting may use any communication method, including the internet, to publish, post or otherwise share the results of the person’s reporting activities.

(7F) Publication and dissemination may take place at the time of the meeting or occur after the meeting.”

(6) After subsection (8) insert—

“(9) In this section “reporting” means—

(a) filming, photographing or making an audio recording of proceedings at a meeting,
(b) using any other means for enabling persons not present to see or hear proceedings at a meeting as it takes place or later, or
(c) reporting or providing commentary on proceedings at a meeting, orally or in writing, so that the report or commentary is available as the meeting takes place or later to persons not present.”
(7) In section 100E of that Act (application to committees and sub-committees), after subsection (1) insert—

“(1A) But in section 100A, subsections (5A), (7A) to (7F) and (9) do not apply to a committee which is appointed or established jointly by one or more principal councils in England and one or more principal councils in Wales, or a sub-committee of such a committee.”

(8) In section 100J of that Act (application of Part 5A to new authorities, Common Council etc.)—

(a) in subsection (1), after “Except in this section,” insert “and subject as follows,”, and
(b) after subsection (2A) insert—
“(2B) In section 100A, subsections (5A), (7A) to (7F) and (9) do not apply to—

(a) a joint waste authority;
(b) the Common Council other than in its capacity as a local authority or police authority;
(c) a joint board or a joint committee falling within subsection (2) above;
(d) the Homes and Communities Agency; or
(e) a Mayoral development corporation.”

5. Therefore the changes would affect public meetings of police and crime panels as holding public meetings is a function of the police and crime panel. Police and crime panels are not a joint committee falling within subsection (2) of 100J as they are (as far as I know) not a body corporate but joint committees of the councils in the area they cover. The modification to the Local Government Act 1972 by Regulation 4(7) of the Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 rules out the changes applying to any police and crime panel (or joint committee) which covered both England and Wales.

However the existing s.100E states “(3) Any reference in this Part to a committee or sub-committee of a principal council is a reference to (a) a committee which is constituted under an enactment specified in section 101(9) below or which is appointed by one or more principal councils under section 102 below”

Police and crime panels (in multi-authority areas) are appointed by one or more principal councils under section 102, see Regulation 6 of The Police and Crime Panels (Application of Local Authority Enactments) Regulations 2012.

6. The amendments made to the Local Government Act 1972 therefore do affect police and crime panels.

7. The Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 however also modify the Public Bodies (Admission to Meetings) Act 1960. These amendments however add a new definition of “local government body” which doesn’t include police and crime panels.

An article written published on the Local Government Lawyer website on Thursday by a partner at Bevan Brittan LLP called Olwen Dutton also states her opinion that the new regulations will cover filming of police and crime panel meetings. In a similar article headlined Local government meetings: now the movie – or the crime scene? on Bevan Brittan LLP’s website two weeks ago also by Olwen Dutton she states that the new regulations will cover meetings of the police and crime panel.

Also when the draft regulations were consulted on the descriptive summary explicitly stated that police and crime panels would be covered by the new regulations.

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4 councillors ban filming at Merseyside Police and Crime Panel public meeting but support police filming the public

4 councillors ban filming at Merseyside Police and Crime Panel public meeting but support police filming the public

4 councillors ban filming at Merseyside Police and Crime Panel public meeting but support police filming the public

                        

Police and Crime Panel meet at Birkenhead Town Hall 24th April 2014

Merseyside Police and Crime Panel (Birkenhead Town Hall) 24th April 2014 taken after the meeting had finished Left to Right Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council officer, Councillor Frank Prendergast (Vice-Chair) (Labour, Liverpool City Council), Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council officer, Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council officer, Joseph Edwards (Independent Co-opted Member) (Mr. Edwards wasn’t present from the start of the meeting but arrived late), Councillor Moira McLaughlin (Labour, Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council), Councillor Doreen Kerrigan (Labour, Sefton Metropolitan Borough Council), Councillor Peter Brennan (Labour, Liverpool City Council)

The meeting started with two announcements the Vice-Chair (Councillor Prendergast) wished to make. The first was he asked for the noisy tea urn at the back of the room to be switched off as he said he had hearing problems. The second announcement Councillor Frank Prendergast (Labour, Liverpool City Council) wanted to make was to say that a request was made to film the public meeting of the Merseyside Police and Crime Panel which he had turned down because “confidential” things may be said during the meeting. However he said the public were welcome to stay for the whole meeting.

At this point as the Chair said it was his decision, I asked if he was making that on behalf of the whole Merseyside Police and Crime Panel as their rules of procedure agreed by the Merseyside Police and Crime Panel last July stated that this decision was of the whole Panel:

“21.1 No audio or visual record of proceedings (or part of the proceedings) of a Panel, Sub-Committee or Working Group meeting may be taken without the express permission of the Panel, Sub-Committee or the Working Group concerned.”

He replied that he was. None of the other three Labour councillors present said anything at this point, nor was a vote taken. I asked the Chair at the close of the meeting to provide a quote as to why he’d been against the public meeting being filmed. He told me he was too busy to provide a quote as he had to leave (the meeting was held in Birkenhead) to go to Clatterbridge via Liverpool.

Although the Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 which prevent bodies such as the Police and Crime Panel stopping filming of their public meetings have been laid before the House of Commons on the 3rd April 2014 by the Rt Hon Eric Pickles MP, due to Parliament breaking up for Easter a week later a resolution approving the Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 hasn’t yet been passed by the House of Commons and House of Lords. So it doesn’t yet have the force of law.

However this is what Labour’s front bench spokesperson, Hilary Benn MP had to say when the issue was debated last year in the House of Commons:

“We will therefore support that change, and also the proposal that councils in England should allow the recording and videoing of council and committee meetings. In this day and age, big changes in technology make recording and videoing readily possible, and I cannot see the difference between sitting in a meeting, listening and writing down what is being said, or—for those who have shorthand—taking a verbatim record, and making one’s own recording.”

                                         
The Merseyside Police and Crime Panel is a joint committee of the councils on Merseyside. The new Labour chaired Liverpool City Region Authority also declined a request to film their first public meeting. The Liverpool City Region Authority’s constitution delegated such matters to the Chief Executive of Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council Sheena Ramsey. Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council is also the host authority for the Merseyside Police and Crime Panel.

Has the message from Labour’s front bench spokesperson Hilary Benn MP to “support the change” to “allow the recording and videoing of council and committee meetings” fallen on deaf ears? Do the four Labour councillors who made the decision to prevent filming yesterday (Councillor Frank Prendergast, Councillor Doreen Kerrigan, Councillor Peter Brennan and Councillor Moira McLaughlin (who is currently Labour’s candidate in Rock Ferry ward)) realise how strange it seems for their party’s national spokesperson to say one thing yet Labour councillors locally on Merseyside to do the complete opposite?

My comments on what happened are that currently the public (and press) already do have the right to film, blog and tweet at public meetings. This is granted to them by article 10 (freedom of expression) of the Human Rights Act 1998 c.42. It is unlawful for any public body to act in a way that is incompatible with article 10 (freedom of expression) due to section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998. In an ironic twist the Merseyside Police and Crime panel during the meeting discussed the wearing of cameras in public by police officers and were supportive of it.

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“Malicious editing” & “inaccurate, offensive or biased” in responses to new public meetings filming law

“Malicious editing” & “inaccurate, offensive or biased” in responses to new public meetings filming law

“Malicious editing” & “inaccurate, offensive or biased” in responses to new public meetings filming law

                            

Labour councillors at a public meeting of Wirral Council's Coordinating Committee vote to consult on closing Lyndale School (27th February 2014)

Labour councillors at a public meeting of Wirral Council’s Coordinating Committee vote to consult on closing Lyndale School (27th February 2014) (an example of the sort of public meeting covered by the new regulations)

Last week I detailed some of the responses to a consultation by the Department for Communities and Local Government on the Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 (the law preventing local government bodies from stopping filming of their public meetings). There were a number of responses I didn’t mention which are summarised below (along with some comments of my own). For the whole response from each body you can follow the link to the Department of Communities and Local Government’s response to my Freedom of Information Act request on the whatdotheyknow.com website.

Association of Democratic Services Officers

The Association of Democratic Services Officers (ADSO) is a professional body that represents staff working in democratic services in local authorities covering staff that do councillor support and support the running of local authority committees. ADSO wrote that “In general ADSO welcomes the draft regulations which we feel are a positive step towards the openness and transparency of local authority meetings” and then went on to raise the following interesting question and point.

“1. The regulations contain provisions relating to providing reasonable facilities for recording decisions/proceedings – we understand that the Secretary of State has the power to direct what “reasonable facilities” means and it would be helpful to know if this is likely to happen – for instance will local authorities be expected to provide internet facilities for attendees?

2. There might be difficulties in establishing a common set of requirements – not to mention the cost and security implications if authorities are told they have to provide free public WiFi in meeting rooms and they do not already have the infrastructure in place.”

Wirral Council does already have wireless internet access at Wallasey Town Hall (which is where most of their meetings are held). However these are for use by councillors and officers, are password protected and members of the media would need to know the password in order to use them (or the requirement to enter a password would have to be removed from one of the wireless networks by a settings change).

If the password to this network was made available to the media it could be used for live broadcasting of meetings as they were filmed rather than the way I do it at the moment which is to compress the video clips overnight and upload them the next day. For those providing a live Twitter feed of public meetings on a mobile phone, I would guess that using a wireless network instead of sending it over a mobile phone provider’s network would use less battery. At least one journalist brings multiple mobile phones to Council meetings that last for hours to write on Twitter about the meeting. Using a wireless network would be less expensive on data charges. It will be interesting to know how “reasonable facilities” is interpreted.

Bracknell Forest Borough Council

The Borough Solicitor of Bracknell Forest Borough Council only wrote this about the filming issue “2. There should be provision in the regulations to allow Councils to establish procedures to ensure that the right to record or film meetings should not be exercised in such a way as to disrupt the conduct of the meeting.”

Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Authority

The clerk to the Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Authority wrote a three page response (also copied to Carolyn Downs of the Local Government Association). The response stated that the issue had been discussed at the Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Authority meeting of the 24th February 2012. Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Authority had what could be described as a lukewarm response with the clerk writing things like “While as a general principle the move towards greater transparency is to be welcomed, it is suggested that this needs to be tempered with what is reasonable and practicable”.

Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Authority referred to a hypothetical future public meeting “whereby a particular decision to be taken could generate significant media and public interest”. They went on to state “While endeavours might be taken to accommodate this as far as possible, there could come a point whereby it might not be possible to accommodate all who might wish to attend.”

Their point was that the existing legislation stated that public meetings “shall be open to the public” whereas the regulations modified that to “grant a carte blanche permission for any and all persons to attend meetings” which meant that whereas the existing legislation meant they felt that they could turn people away from public meetings on grounds of capacity or fire safety, once it was modified they didn’t feel they would be able to do this. As with many responses to the consultation they were against the idea of a right to live commentary as this would be “somewhat disruptive and not conducive to concentration or effective decision making”. This was also stated in their response “There is also a risk of inaccurate or misleading reporting taking place if commentary (orally or in writing) in made before the debate is concluded and any final decision made or vote taken.

Essex County Fire and Rescue Service

Essex County Fire and Rescue Service’s Head of Law and Corporate Administration responded to state “in my view that, save for the use of recording equipment in public meetings, the governance of decisions in the Essex Fire Authority and indeed its subordinated Service is carried out in a way not dissimilar to the provisions of the draft regulations and appears to be very open and transparent for the public to secure clear insight into the use and discharge of EFA powers.”

Greater London Authority

The Greater London Authority (GLA) and Greater London Authority Group were supportive of the principles behind the regulations and stated “At the outset, we wish to express our general support for the principles which the Draft Regulations seek to implement. The GLA has done a great deal to improve its transparency and public access to decision-making, of our own volition and in support of the Government’s wide transparency agenda for local government bodies. We recognise the benefits that this brings to our customers and stakeholders but also to ourselves.”

Hampshire Fire and Rescue Authority

The Chairman of Hampshire Fire and Rescue Authority responded by stating that Hampshire Fire and Rescue Authority “welcomes the opportunity for greater transparency and openness to local governance body meetings by allowing any persons to attend the meeting for the purposes of reporting.” and “A positive impact of the draft Regulations would be that members of the public would become better informed on the business of HFRA and as a result, the business of HFRA would be promoted to a wider audience.”

However their response wasn’t all positive as the Chairman also went on to state, “However, it is possible that persons may attempt or distort or edit the broadcast in some way to create a misleading impression.” and “HFRA considers the draft Regulations do not make any reference to ‘disturbances’ that could be caused at meetings by persons reporting and the impact that the disturbance could have on the meeting. HFRA recommends the ‘Plain English Guide’ to include guidance on disturbances and to the removal of a person from a meeting if their reporting renders the proceedings at the meeting impossible.”

Kent Fire and Rescue Service

The Chief Executive of Kent Fire and Rescue Service, Ann Millington gave the following response to the filming and social media issue:

“The Authority is committed to openness and transparency and has already drafted a policy on filming and the use of social media at its meetings. The Authority therefore has no objection in principle to giving the public a legal right to film or use social media for reporting on local authority meetings. However, the Authority does have serious concerns about some of the more detailed proposals contained in the draft regulations.

First, the Authority would question the need for the proposed amendment to section 100A(6)(c) of the Local Government Act 1972 requiring local authorities to provide “reasonable facilities” for members of the public to report meetings. This amendment is unnecessary given that the proposed new subsection 7A gives members of the public the right to attend meetings for the purposes of reporting. It is undesirable because it would put members of the public who wish to report on a meeting (or who just claim that they wish to do so) on a par with professional journalists representing newspapers. It is wrong to equate ‘citizen reporters’ with professional journalists because the latter are (as the Act itself says) “duly accredited” and work to professional standards. Local authorities have a reasonable expectation that professional journalists will report local authority meetings accurately and objectively. If these expectations are not met, then there are clear procedures by which local authorities (and others) can complain and have inaccuracies corrected. In contrast ‘citizen reporters’ can be as inaccurate, offensive or biased as they wish, and it is very difficult for local authorities to counter this.

In practice, the only ‘reasonable facilities’ that local authorities provide for professional journalists is reserved seating. There is a danger that giving ‘citizen journalists’ the same rights to ‘reasonable facilities’ as professional journalists would result in members of the public wishing to report on meetings, or claiming they wish to do so, demanding priority for the available seating over other members of the public. This could be very unfair where a meeting generates so much local interest that not all the members of the public wishing to attend can be accommodated.

The Authority’s second concern is that the draft regulations appear to give members of the public wishing to report on local authority meetings an absolute right to do so. However the regulations need to incorporate a provision that the public’s right to report is subject to any reasonable conditions which the local authority may feel appropriate. These conditions may include a requirement to advise the Chairman of the meeting before the meeting starts of any intention to film or record (so that the Chairman can advise all attendees, including other members of the public, of this) as well as a prohibition on covert filming or recording; and a requirement not to cause any disruption to the meeting. Although subsection (8) already covers ‘disorderly conduct or other misbehaviour’, it does not cover the sort of disruption that would be caused if a member of the public exercising their right to film (under subsection (10)(a)) chose to wander around the meeting room while doing so, or if a member of the public exercising their right to provide commentary on proceedings of a meeting orally (under subsection (10)(c)) did so loudly enough to interfere with the formal debate.”

Lawyers in Local Government (LLG)

Lawyers in Local Government (LLG) responded as follows on the filming issue, “There is a strong view that there needs to be a power for Council to allow subject to limits on what can be filmed – e.g. speaker notes, listeners notes, etc.? What about the recording of members not participating in the debate? Should there be a sanction for concealment? (There is a cadre of opinion that the Chair of a meeting should have the power to prevent councillors from tweeting/blogging during meetings as some chairs take the view that this is at best not participating as they should and at worst disrespectful to the meeting.)

Has there been consultation with NALC? The extension of the provisions to all parish council’s and parish meetings seems to be ‘over the top’ – perhaps it should be linked to the criteria for Quality Council status, the majority of parish councils (and effectively all parish meetings) simply not being resourced for the additional administration?

What is the Department’s view on what a Council could do if a recording were made and then published, particularly in an edited format which misrepresented what had actually happened at the meeting?”

Nottinghamshire County Council

The Corporate Director for Policy Planning and Corporate Services at Nottinghamshire County Council had this to write about the filming issue, “The County Council supports public access to meetings, and the right of the press and public to report and record them. However, the legislation should take account of practical implications; recording should not disrupt the smooth running of meetings, and authorities should be able to request reasonable notice, limit numbers and so on where appropriate.”

National Association of Local Councils

NALC (the National Association of Local Councils) represents around 9,000 parish councils in England. On the filming issue their policy and improvement officer wrote the following, “While NALC supports the objective of transparent and accountable local government, we are deeply concerned some key sections of the draft regulations will have a significant effect on the operation of parish councils, leading to an increase in red tape and bureaucracy and adding unnecessary new costs.”

NALC’s comments and recommendations on the filming issue were:

  • any person seeking to film or record a meeting of a local council be required to announce their intention to the council or council staff prior to the commencement of the meeting;
  • in the interests of openness and transparency, the names of any person(s) seeking to film or record a meeting of a council required to be recorded in the minutes of the meeting in question;
  • regulations should reflect the need for permission to be sought from members of the public to be filmed or recorded during the public participation element of the meeting;
  • where filming or recording does take place, any running verbal commentary by a person(s) should not disrupt the meeting, with the Chairman of the meeting able to ask the person(s) to stop any verbal commentary on the grounds of disruption, should disruption continue as a last resort be able to ask them to leave the meeting;
  • NALC consulted with their member councils and highlighted these issues from the responses that they received:

    “The majority of our councils are extremely concerned that the regulations which seek to amend the Public Bodies (Admission to Meetings) Act 1960 to allow a member of the public to film or record public meetings could be used to provide biased or inaccurate coverage of those meetings, to the detriment of the council or individual councillors.”

    “Councils clearly feel that the intention of the filming and recording regulations in particular would have a different effect on the local (parish and town) council tier rather than on the larger, and better resourced, local authorities.”

    “Clear guidance, drafted specifically for the local council sector, could alleviate many councils’ fears, particularly in relation to the expected resourcing of regulations relating to reporting delegated decisions and filming, as well as clearly articulating sector expectations.”

    NALC’s comments and concerns on the proposed regulations were set out in more detail in various sections (which you can read below).

    Regulations requiring parish and town councils to allow any persons including professional journalists to attend, film, audio record, take photographs or provide commentary on the proceedings at public meetings

    As noted above, this proposed regulation drew the most comment from our sector.

    Generally, parish councils are supportive of the Government’s intention and policy objective, but remain concerned that vexatious recordings could be made that create an inaccurate impression of council decision making and which are distributed to a large public audience.

    It was for this reason that a significant proportion of our councils are against the implementation of this regulation. Further detail is provided below.

  • Councils making their own recordings

Many councils have expressed a view this regulation would require them to record and upload their own web recordings, in order to ensure a true record of proceedings was maintained in video format (in addition to the minutes of the meeting). It was felt that this would be necessary to protect against any modified film or video recordings that could give a public misrepresentation of proceedings. Smaller councils in particular were concerned that they do not have the resources to make their own recordings with which to protect themselves from the consequences of this regulation. For example, Didcot Town Council (although a large local council) outlined the resources required:

‘[Council’s] would need to provide audio-visual recording equipment in their meeting rooms to provide a corporate record of all meetings and this would need to be staffed and archived…. Media and legal training would need to be provided to councillors and staff which would take time and finance.’

  • Filming councillors

As the tier of Government closest to the community they represent, a number of parish councillors felt intimidated by the thought of being filmed and/or recorded in their capacity as councillors. They argued that the idea of being filmed surreptitiously was a significant deterrent to current and even potential parish councillors, thus serving to weaken rather than strengthen democracy. Great Baddow Parish Council wrote:

‘Finally, as we know, it is difficult enough already to get people to stand as parish councillors. It seems to be forgotten that they are unpaid public officials, volunteering their time, providing a community service. … Having what they say in council meetings … broadcast around the village, if not the world and possibly held to ridicule by the Daily Mail is not calculated to increase the number of people willing to become councillors. Or perhaps the younger generation, brought up on Facebook, will not care?’

  • Filming members of the public

The sector also expressed concern that members of the public might be deterred from participating in open discussion on contentious issues if they were aware they were being filmed. The Oxfordshire Association of Local Councils provided an example of the concern they heard from their members:

‘We accept constructive and responsible use of all forms of technology – blogging, tweeting, filming and recording. However, we recognise that some councils feel that allowing filming, in particular, could be intrusive and inhibit free speech, deterring people from speaking out on contentious issues such as planning applications. This is very relevant in small communities where members of the public, as well as councillors, may feel intimidated from expressing their views. It is accepted that councillors by standing for election to public office have, by default, acknowledged some degree of exposure but members of the public need some measure of reassurance that their views will not be misrepresented by malicious editing.’

  • Announcement of intention to film or record

In order to address this concern, a significant number of councils proposed that people intending to film or record a public council meeting make their intention known to council staff, who could then inform councillors and members of the public attending the meeting. It was felt that this would go some way to ensuring that the recording was not used maliciously and that it would not be disruptive to the conduct of council business. Some councils suggested that prior written consent should be obtained before filming or recording could take place.

The National Association, on behalf of our members, supports this amendment. We would like to see the regulation amended to require that any person seeking to film or record a meeting of a local council announce that intention to the council or council staff prior to the commencement of the meeting and have this intention recorded in the minutes of the meeting. This would allow councillors to raise this intention with any participating members of the public that are present and assuage ongoing concern around filming with malicious intent, without inhibiting the desire for transparent and participative local governance.

In addition, we recommend that the regulations should require permission from members of the public to be filmed or recorded be sought prior to the commencement of filming.”

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Responses to filming law; public meetings in a pub, Lord True & a “frequently intimate” Council Chamber and the LGA

Responses to filming law; public meetings in a pub, Lord True & a “frequently intimate” council chamber and the LGA

Responses to filming law; public meetings in a pub, Lord True & a “frequently intimate” Council Chamber and the LGA

                         

Labour councillors at a public meeting of Wirral Council's Coordinating Committee vote to consult on closing Lyndale School (27th February 2014)

Labour councillors at a public meeting of Wirral Council’s Coordinating Committee vote to consult on closing Lyndale School (27th February 2014) (an example of the sort of public meeting covered by the new regulations)

The Department of Communities and Local Government have today responded to the Freedom of Information Act request I made a month ago about consultation responses (although DCLG refers to it as a “sounding exercise” and not a consultation) about the Openness of Local Government Bodies Regulations 2014 (this is the proposed law about filming of public meetings) which is now in draft form but expected to move from draft form to having the force of law in the next month or two. Once it becomes law I’ll be able to film public meetings of the Combined Authority or its Merseytravel Committee without facing resistance to such requests from the bureaucracy.

Some of the responses raise interesting points. My comments centre on the filming aspects of this, however these draft regulations cover filming and some other matters.

Alton Town Council
My first thought was where’s Alton? It’s about ten miles east of Newcastle. Alton Town Council were against the requirement to allow oral commentary during public meetings (something I must admit I was against too as I had visions of filming a meeting with journalists either side talking into tape recorders and completely drowning out what was being said). This requirement has since been dropped in the version of the draft legislation laid before Parliament as many of the responses were against it.

Alton Town Council describe their opposition to such a requirement thus “One person trying to speak over another person is rarely helpful in a debate, as I’m sure members of the House of Commons are aware.” However they also state in their response “As a general principle I don’t have an issue with the idea of filming or recording meetings, or tweeting or posting comments during meetings.”

Unknown Parish Council
Unfortunately DCLG have redacted this response so I don’t know which parish council this was from. They state that they hire a room in the local public house for their meetings that “lighting is far from perfect at present and I doubt if it would be adequate for recording (filming) purposes”. They further point out that “electrical sockets are limited”.

Their response goes on to state that they have between seven and fifteen members of the public at their meetings (I wonder if this is partly because they’re held in the local pub). The last point they raise is about privacy, not about councillors or officers but of members of the public. They pose the point of if somebody objected to the filming, given the recording would not be the responsibility of or in the control of the council, what would the position be?

Personally I think the concept of privacy at a public meeting (and I’ve been to at least one recently at Wirral Council where there have been over a hundred people there at least) doesn’t really exist. You’re in a public building at a public meeting in a public place, there should be no expectation of privacy in such situations.

Transport for London
Although not on the subject of filming, Transport for London insist that compliance with the new regulations will require hiring seven to ten extra full-time employees and that they don’t have time to do this before the new regulations will come into effect. Good news though if you want a job working for Transport for London!

Lord True CBE (Leader, London Borough of Richmond upon Thames)
Lord True’s response sent on House of Lords stationery thinks that the regulations are disproportionate, intrusive and will lead to “additional unnecessary costs” for local government.

He states that at his Council they already stream live over the internet meetings of all their councillors and Planning Committee meetings and other meetings if there is “a specific expression of public interest”. However they don’t stream all meetings “in view of the costs involved”.

Lord True however is however concerned about the “need not to disrupt” (in fact so concerned that he underlines the phrase in his letter. He sees no reason why anyone should be prevented from filming, photographing (preferably without flash) or filming but is against the idea of “oral commentary” which he deems to be “unnecessary and potentially disruptive”. He describes a council chamber as being “frequently intimate” and states that their gallery is so close that you can “touch those on the front row”.

He goes on to state that construction of a “sound proof box” (which is what happened to the public gallery in the House of Commons and House of Lords since the “flour bomb” incident) would be expensive and he asks that the oral commentary requirement in the regulations be removed.

His views go on to include the rather worrying phrase that shows perhaps the rather unhealthy desire at times that politicians have to control the press “I think it is absolutely essential in the interests of democracy and fair debate that Councils are not able to obstruct access, but are able to control the way in which recording is done”. He states that filming from the public gallery would give an advantage to the councillors nearer to it, that the Council does its own filming from behind the Mayor which gives equal treatment to councillors on both sides. He goes on to state that he thinks it would be better to just have the Council filming meetings, with the recording made available to anyone who wanted it as opposed to separate recordings of the same meeting.

Lord True goes on to state that he thinks that requests to film or record should be made in advance. This seems to ignore the point that when the new regulations come into effect such a request couldn’t be turned down therefore what is the point of making it? He states “I think in the interests of fairness and good order requests to film or record should be made in advance, or at least subject to control by the Chair, on advice from the proper officer.”

His last point is that the new regulations won’t include Neighbourhood Forums and states that these bodies will have “extensive planning responsibilities”. On the Wirral this would be bodies such as Hoylake Life, Devonshire Park Residents Association and Unity in the Community. Perhaps someone who has a greater knowledge of these bodies or connection to these three could leave a comment about the filming issue, but from memory Devonshire Park Residents Association still has to have a referendum before it formally becomes a Neighbourhood Forum and I would guess that the other two are also at the early stages of development too. Lord True’s view is that these bodies should be opened up to filming in the same way that “Council planning committee now are (or will be)”.

Local Government Association
The Local Government Association also responded stating that they are “committed to the principles of transparency and openness in local government and to continuous improvement”. They state that most of the proposals in the draft regulations are already taking place in the vast majority of councils, either on a voluntary basis or in compliance with existing legislation.

They even accept that there is “room for improvement”, however refer to the regulations as “completely contrary to the principles of localism” and of being “micro-management of the sector”. The LGA states that instead of a legal requirement on all councils to comply they’d prefer government issue guidance to councils instead. The Local Government Association states that they would “welcome a meeting with you to discuss” “concerns relating to the areas covered by the draft regulations”.

The response from the Local Government Association (sent in the name of Carolyn Downs its Chief Executive) finishes by stating “Finally and separately it would be helpful to have a conversation about “soundings” as opposed to consultation.

If we read what was said by by Baroness Stowell who was at the time Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Department of Communities and Local Government after referring to how the filming issue had been dealt with in other parts of the country said on the 21st November last year “Noble Lords raised important points about risks, and the measures necessary to mitigate those risks, to ensure that proper conduct is able to continue. I re-emphasise that we will carry out a process of consultation on these regulations and ensure that we take account of the points that have been made. We will not lay the regulations until we have completed that consultation. However, we are talking about a matter of months in terms of bringing those regulations forward. We do not want delay on this.”

Generally people would think that a “process of consultation” means a consultation, yet the Department of Communities and Local Government doesn’t regard this as a “consultation” but instead as “soundings”. However whether it was a consultation or soundings is about as worthwhile as discussing the answer to the question, “How many angels can you fit on the head of a pin?”. The draft regulations will become law in a matter of weeks.

I’ll continue at a later date going through some more of the responses. The regulations place a legal responsibility on councils to provide “reasonable facilities”. In the days of newspaper journalists needing a table to sit on that was generally what was interpreted as reasonable facilities. However some of the responses I’ll go through in detail tomorrow ask if “reasonable facilities” could be interpreted as providing free wireless internet access to those wanting to film, tweet, blog etc. It’s an interesting idea, I know in another part of the country a blogger used the public wireless internet access there provided to the press to stream a Council meeting on Youtube earlier this year.

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