Category: Audit and Risk Management

Audit and Risk Management Committee (Wirral Council) 1st February 2012 Part 1

Present: Committee Cllr Crabtree (Chair) Cllr Dodd Cllr Mountney Cllr Brighouse Cllr John Salter deputising for Cllr Ron Abbey Cllr Irene Williams Cllr Jeff Green Officers Mark Delap (Committee Clerk) Deputy Director of Finance Chief Internal Auditor Bill Norman (Legal Adviser/Head of Law, HR and Asset Management Department) Tom Sault Audit Commission Mike Thomas (District … Continue reading “Audit and Risk Management Committee (Wirral Council) 1st February 2012 Part 1”

Present:

Committee

Cllr Crabtree (Chair)
Cllr Dodd
Cllr Mountney
Cllr Brighouse
Cllr John Salter deputising for Cllr Ron Abbey
Cllr Irene Williams
Cllr Jeff Green

Officers

Mark Delap (Committee Clerk)
Deputy Director of Finance
Chief Internal Auditor
Bill Norman (Legal Adviser/Head of Law, HR and Asset Management Department)
Tom Sault

Audit Commission
Mike Thomas (District Auditor)

Liz Temple-Murray

The Chair asked for declarations of interest. There weren’t any declared, so the Committee considered the minutes of the meeting held on the 29th November 2011.  The Chief Internal Auditor said they had been asked in the minutes to circulate a copy of the Internal Audit Manual.

Cllr Darren Dodd referred to amendments to the minutes. The Chair said if he was OK with the explanation Cllr Dodd had received from Mark Delap? He asked if it was OK if he signed the minutes?

The Chair moved onto item 3 Annual Governance Report 2010/2011 Action Plan Update.

The Deputy Director of Finance referred the Committee to the Action Plan and recommendations.

The Chair asked for comments.

There were no comments, so the Chair moved onto item 4 Statement of Accounts 2011/2012 Review of Arrangements.

Tom Sault introduced item 4. He referred to the Statement of Accounts and Action Plan and updated the Committee on areas of further progress. He said he was happy to take any questions?

Cllr Green was keen that there was not a repeat of last year and following criticism by external audit didn’t want the situation to happen again. He asked Tom to clarify and comment on the proposal for closing the Statement of Accounts.

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Audit & Risk Management Committee (Wirral Council) 29th November 2011 Part 6 Internal Audit Update

Cllr Jim Crabtree asked if Cllr Ron Abbey had a question.

Cllr Simon Mountney said it was unfair to ask [Colin Hughes]. He said the question should be put to the Director of Law, Human Resources and Asset Management [Bill Norman] at the earliest opportunity.

Cllr Ron Abbey said the wanted his question minuted. He referred to item 4 section 4.3 (b)(i) and the audit undertaken of the Department of Adult Social Services Day to Day Procurement System. He said that the issues raised in the audit had not been addressed by the Department of Adult Social Services, but following the reorganisation responsibility now rested with the Department of Law, Human Resources and Asset Management. He wanted to know the timescale and when the committee would see it, even as an interim announcement between meetings sent to the Chair, Deputy Chair, spokespersons and the rest of the committee.

Colin Hughes said that he was sure they would their best to comply, but he was not familiar with it.

Cllr Ron Abbey said the Department for Adult Social Services actions had not been actioned and responsibility had been given to the Department of Law, Human Resources and Asset Management to resolve it following the reorganisation. He wanted timescales as to when it would be delivered and reported on in the interim period between meetings. It was important that recommendations were made into actions as speedily as possible rather than not actioned. Cllr Abbey said this issue went back months and months and months. He wanted them to be a bit more prompt and he said the critical report showed we’re “not good at dealing with anything as an organisation”.

Audit & Risk Management Committee (Wirral Council) 29th November 2011 Part 5 Internal Audit Update

Cllr Jim Crabtree said they would find someone.

Cllr Abbey said he had other questions on actions and timescales.

Cllr Simon Mountney said he was happy to talk, but the decision over not having a legal adviser because he had a meeting tomorrow he thought “a disgrace”. He repeated that he thought it was a disgrace.

Cllr Jim Crabtree said it was his decision, that Sarjit had asked and that had been his response.

Cllr Simon Mountney said he was delighted that Colin was here, but that Colin didn’t know about the items on the agenda. He wasn’t going to ask Colin to go away but he felt it was a waste of their time.

Cllr James Keeley said he was happy to move forward.

Cllr Ron Abbey said he wasn’t being disrespectful, but that [Cllr Crabtree] should have asked the committee who would’ve said no. He felt that the Department for Adult Social Service had kicked it into the long grass with no answer. He said was important for good governance and for advising Cabinet. He was mindful that there would be the holidays soon. They would soon be dealing with the Budget, after that would be the local elections, then things would be delayed to the Mayor Making. He was sorry to labour the point, but it was symptomatic of the way things were happening.

Cllr Jim Crabtree said would be appropriate for Bill Norman to write to members of the committee.

Cllr Ron Abbey suggested this was done by “pony express” not “snail mail”.

Audit & Risk Management Committee (Wirral Council) 29th November 2011 Part 4 Internal Audit Update

Cllr Abbey said he had to be as blunt as this as time after time, actions had not been actioned. He had suspicions it was deliberate. He said the corporate governance recommendations had not been actioned, damage done and that they should have people sitting at this committee as it was a very important meeting in going forward. Cllr Abbey said they can’t do corporate governance without the relevant officers present and it was symptomatic of the problems.

Cllr Jim Crabtree said he apologised on Surjit’s behalf, Surjit had a meeting tomorrow and work to do and had asked Cllr Crabtree if he was needed.

Cllr Ron Abbey said they had more important and pressing matters and nothing was more important than good…

Cllr Jim Crabtree said Colin Hughes was in the building.

Cllr Ron Abbey said senior people were not here and they were “paying lip service” to “addressing issues”.

Cllr James Keeley said he agreed. It was a “statutory committee” and it was outrageous they had no legal adviser.

Cllr Jim Crabtree said he could adjourn the committee until one was found.

Cllr Alan Brighouse said he shared the concerns.

Cllr Jim Crabtree said Surjit had asked if he was really needed as tomorrow he had a tribunal.

Cllr Ron Abbey said he appreciated officers could be unable to attend, but a replacement officer should be a matter of course. He appreciated David Taylor-Smith was here on behalf of the Department of Finance, but there was no-one from the Department of Law, Human Resources and Asset Management.

Audit & Risk Management Committee (Wirral Council) 29th November 2011 Part 3 Internal Audit Update

The committee considered the Internal Audit update. A council officer said it covered from the beginning of September to October and that he wanted to bring to the committee’s attention several items. At 1.5 the format and content of Internal Audit reports was under review by a working party. This included the Chief Internal Auditor, Deputy Chief Internal Auditor, Chair of the Audit & Risk Management Committee and Deputy Chair of the Audit and Risk Management Committee. 4.6 detailed several high-profile items, there was no specific recommendation for action but he wanted to highlight these. 4.3(b)(i) dealt with the issue of the failure to implement agreed recommendations, it needed further action to encourage officers to urgently implement the recommendations.

The officer said that 4.2.1 dealt with Internal Audit staffing as the “current staffing was in peril” due to maternity leave, sickness leave which had been exacerbated by two officers unavailable as they were seconded full-time to deal with the Anna Klonowski recommendations. A member of staff was also going on jury service. Group auditors had been seconded to the corporate governance team full-time from Monday. They had been authorised to engage appropriate staff through the corporate agency contract. Staff would be selected next week.

Cllr Ron Abbey said he had a number of questions and thanked officers for the report. He said that staffing issues were covered in item 5 but caused short-term difficulties. Referring to 4.3 (b)(i) he said it could slip off the side and never be actioned. As it was high risk and high priority, he said that the officer dealing with it was not sitting here was “ridiculous” and “scandalous”.