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Posted by: John Brace | 10th June 2015

Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station "inappropriate development" & "potential for significant harm"

Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “inappropriate development” & “potential for significant harm”

                                                              

Dan Stephens (Chief Fire Officer, Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service) answers questions at a public consultation meeting in Saughall Massie to discuss proposals for a new fire station (20th April 2015). Kieran Timmins (Deputy Chief Executive) is on the right.

Dan Stephens (Chief Fire Officer) answers questions at a public consultation meeting in Saughall Massie to discuss proposals for a new fire station (20th April 2015)

One of the long running sagas that this blog has reported on has been the future of Upton and West Kirby fire stations. Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service have had two twelve week consultations on this in the last year. The first consultation was on the controversial Greasby library/community centre site in the heart of Greasby village. However in a dramatic U-turn following opposition Wirral Council who owned the site in question withdrew it from consideration part way through the consultation.

The second consultation, which finished on the 18th May and provoked similar levels of opposition to that shown in Greasby but for different reasons also involved a piece of land in Wirral Council’s ownership in Saughall Massie. A decision by Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority following the second consultation is expected towards the end of June.

Yesterday evening Wirral Council responded to a Freedom of Information request about the e-mails that were sent between Wirral Council and Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service about this issue.

The emails make for interesting reading. As there are so many emails in three bundles of correspondence I may split this into different blog posts with half of the first bundle of emails below.

I haven’t included copies of the maps that were provided, however if you wish to view them, they’re on the Whatdotheyknow website. I haven’t corrected any typographical errors in the emails below.


Timmins, Kieran


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent:25 September 2013 18:31
To: NyreeCollinson@Merseyfire.gov.uk
CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; ColinSchofield@merseyfire.gov.uk
Subject: Request for sites

Nyree, Please can you forward this to David Ball/David Armstrong at the Wirral. Thanks.

Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-

A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding.
Additional documents

As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-

a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area

The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk


Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 04 November 2013 13:39
To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
CC: Schofield, Colin
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Hi Gents

Have you had a chance to consider what options might be available.

Regards

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk


From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 04 November 2013 12:52
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Kieran, is this the email you’re looking for?

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108



From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 26 September 2013 09:36
To: David Ball – Regeneration Dept., Wirral Borough Council (davidball@wirral.gov.uk);’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Please see below from Kieran Timmins

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 September 2013 18:31
To: Collinson, Nyree
CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; Schofield, Colin
Subject: Request for sites

Dear David/David

Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-

A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding.
Additional documents

As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-

a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area

The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk


Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 15 November 2013 13:48
To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
CC: Schofield, Colin
Subject: RE: Request for sites

Hi Gents

Have you had a chance to consider this yet?

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 04 November 2013 13:39
To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
CC: Schofield, Colin
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Hi Gents

Have you had a chance to consider what options might be available.

Regards

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk


From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 04 November 2013 12:52
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Kieran, is this the email you’re looking for?

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108



From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 26 September 2013 09:36
To: David Ball – Regeneration Dept., Wirral Borough Council (davidball@wirral.gov.uk);’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Please see below from Kieran Timmins

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 September 2013 18:31
To: Collinson, Nyree
CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; Schofield, Colin
Subject: Request for sites

Dear David/David

Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-

A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding.
Additional documents

As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-

a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area

The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk


Timmins, Kieran


From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 15 November 2013 13:50
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Out of Office Autoreply: Request for sites

Thank you for your e-mail.

I am out of the office on Friday afternoon in a series of meetings. I will be accessing e-mails from time to time but if you need anything urgently then please contact Annie Hasprey or Melanie Sloan on 0151 691 8395 and they will be able to help you.

Regards,

David

David Ball
Head of Regeneration and Planning,
Wirral Council


This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com



Timmins, Kieran
From: Halpin, Colleen S. on behalf of Armstrong, David
Sent: 11 December 2013 14:55
To: Murphy(M), Paul; Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin
CC: Royle, Jeanette E.
Subject: Request for Sites

Dear Colin, Paul and Kieran

Thank you for your emails and messages regarding a potential site in Greasby for a new fire station. I apologise for not replying sooner. I am afraid a new phone and a series of hospital appointments are slowing me down!

In order to discuss the Greasby site further, can you please contact Tony Simpson on tonysimpson@wirral.gov.uk, tell 666 3892, who will share with you the relevant plans and land ownership issues.

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk


This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com



Timmins, Kieran


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 12 December 2013 09:58
To: ‘Armstrong, David’
Cc: Royle, Jeanette E.; Schofield, Colin
Subject: RE: Request for Sites

Thanks David, much appreciated. Hope you are ok?

Not sure if Tony can pick this up but it strikes me as making sense if (presuming a Wirral owned site is identified in Greasby) that a land swap for the youth zone in Birkenhead might be a sensible approach for tidying up ownership etc…….. what do you think?

Take care

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk


From: Halpin, Colleen S. on behalf of Armstrong, David
Sent: 11 December 2013 14:55
To: Murphy(M), Paul; Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin
CC: Royle, Jeanette E.
Subject: Request for Sites

Dear Colin, Paul and Kieran

Thank you for your emails and messages regarding a potential site in Greasby for a new fire station. I apologise for not replying sooner. I am afraid a new phone and a series of hospital appointments are slowing me down!

In order to discuss the Greasby site further, can you please contact Tony Simpson on tonysimpson@wirral.gov.uk, tell 666 3892, who will share with you the relevant plans and land ownership issues.

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk


This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com



Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk

If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure this email and attachments are free from virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/


This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com



From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk


From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.


Kieran, Timmins


From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk


From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/


This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com



Timmins, Kieran


From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08
To:Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi Kieran

Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-

Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL

Regards

Tony


Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk



From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk


From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/


Timmins, Kieran


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:10
To: ‘Simpson, Tony’
Cc: Subramanayam, Anatha; Schofield, Colin; Woods, Stewart
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for prompt research Tony….. although just looking at the listing makes me think this could be complicated!!

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk



From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08
To:Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi Kieran

Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-

Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL

Regards

Tony


Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk



From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk


From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/


Timmins, Kieran


From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:14
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Nothing’s ever easy these days!


Timmins, Kieran


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:10
To: ‘Simpson, Tony’
Cc: Subramanayam, Anatha; Schofield, Colin; Woods, Stewart
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for prompt research Tony….. although just looking at the listing makes me think this could be complicated!!

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk



From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08
To:Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi Kieran

Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-

Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL

Regards

Tony


Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk



From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk


From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/


Timmins, Kieran


From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014


From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224


Timmins, Kieran


From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:23
To: Ball, David S; Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

The land is not Council owned.

Tony


From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014


From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224


Timmins, Kieran


From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:34
To: ‘Simpson, Tony’; Ball, David S.
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Thanks Tony

Do you think it might be a suitable site? Do you know offhand anything about the ownership or history?

Thanks

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk


From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:23
To: Ball, David S; Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

The land is not Council owned.

Tony


From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014


From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224


Timmins, Kieran


From: Ball, David S
Sent: 29 April 2014 12:58
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David; Simpson, Tony
Subject FW: Greasby sites

Kieran,

Here is the view on this site from my Forward Planning team. It seems that there would be some planning policy issues here but I can explore it further if you want me to.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014


From: Entwhistle, John C.
Sent: 29 April 2014 12:56
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

David – the land on the opposite site of Frankby road to St John the Divine is in the Green Belt so a fire station would be inappropriate development and very special circumstances would have to be demonstrated. However there is potential for significant harm to the Green Belt in this location because of its role in maintaining separation between Greasby and Frankby.

John Entwistle
Principal Forward Planning Officer,
Forward Planning,
Regeneration and Environment,
Wirral Council,
Town Hall, Brighton Street
Wallasey, Merseyside
CH44 8ED
Telephone: 0151 691 8221
email: johnentwistle@wirral.gov.uk
Fax: 0151 691 8273
Visit our website www.wirral.gov.uk
Please save paper and print out only what is necessary.

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014


From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 12:19
To: Entwhistle, John C.
Subject: FW: Greasby sites
Importance: High

John,

Do we know anything about this site?

Would a fire station be an acceptable use?

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014


From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:23
To: Ball, David S; Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

The land is not Council owned.

Tony


From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014


From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224


Continues at Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “there would be some planning policy issues”.

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  1. G’day John

    Your “regular bloggers” Annony Mouse and My Ronnie ask why I attempt to make fools out of the fools at the Clowncil.

    From the local trash propaganda rag.

    Three arrested in Wirral over alleged £800,000 advertising scam for bogus magazine

    John, amazeballs they can do fraud when the piss is taken out of emergency services magazines.

    If Wirral “Funny” Bizz takes the piss out of the Wirral taxpaying public for at least three times the amount

    ZILCH

    Ooroo

    James

    PS Annony and My Ronnie got talk to “The Football Shit” and “The Chamber Potty” and get some decency and self-respect about themselves.

    • There’s more about this fraud in a Mirror article from last year and this Liverpool Echo article details the same sort of fraud a few years ago in Liverpool.

      In this type of fraud I would guess it would be the trading standards of a local council (for wherever these people are based) that get enough complaints or information from those conned that action is taken.

      • Mr Brace, A number of Offences take place in some Business Frauds (Scams) You can have Fraud (2006) any number of Offences, You can have False Accounting, usually involves the Tax and Vat Person. There are different named Frauds as well.

  2. All this crap going on and on for building a new firestation, can it go here, can it go there,
    All you need is a bit of vacant flat land, [ and we all know there are enough of these all over wirral ] to park a couple of fire tenders, a port-a-cabin for the crew and some space to park the crews cars etc, a bin for rubbish, cost to wirral bugger all, problem solved, moving on .

    • Mr Brace, I guess Keef666, is either a Youngster or just another person sharp as a Needle and Bright as a Button person.

    • I know some people are very cynical about consultations run by Wirral Council as they feel whatever the responses to the consultation an “in principle” decision will then be just rubber stamped, but Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority seem to genuinely want to consult properly before making a decision.

      There are plenty of vacant bits of flat land on the Wirral, but the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service want it in a particular area on the Wirral which is mainly green belt.

      People who live in that part of the Wirral (and indeed in other parts of the Wirral) are very protective of any threats to the green belt as they view it as part of the character of the area they chose to live in.

      Just going back 8 years ago you’ll find the Planning Committee rejected twice plans for a health centre on green belt land as it didn’t meet special circumstances for building on green belt.

      Personally I think the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service want something more permanent than what you describe. If, as Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service officers have already stated that they would like a new fire station at Saughall Massie to possibly include provision for the North West Ambulance Service (and/or possibly Merseyside Police) then it becomes quite easily a much bigger facility than just a fire station.

      Wirral Council seems desperate to sell of land it doesn’t use (see the Fernbank Farm stories for an example of that) and may do a swap with the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority for the land Wirral Council need in Birkenhead for a Youth Zone.

      • People aren’t protective of this site just because it adds character. Saughall Massie doesn’t have a playing field or a park. Lots of open greenspace, but all privately owned. I doubt whether local farmers will welcome kids kicking a ball around or walking dogs on their land!

        • Thanks,

          I was referring more to previous plans to build on the green belt in Wirral West that have been opposed by organisations like the Wirral Society, rather than the Saughall Massie site in particular.

          I think there’s a planning requirement for access to urban greenspace, such as the Saughall Massie site within a certain distance (possibly 400 metres).

          You are right that there isn’t any urban greenspace open to the public in that general area, so how they will deal with that particular planning policy I’m not sure. I quote from a recent report to the Planning Committee on an application for development in the green belt (NPPF stands for National Planning Policy Framework):

          National Policy for Open Space, Green Belt & Flood Risk

          NPPF, paragraph 74 states that existing open space should not be built on unless an assessment has been undertaken that clearly shows the open space to be surplus to requirements; or the loss resulting from proposed development would be replaced by equivalent or better provision; or the development is for alternative recreational provision, the need for which clearly outweighs the loss.

          Certainly from what you’re saying it’s not surplus to requirements, nor do any of the other conditions currently apply!

          • Thank you. Yes, I know this. But it has got this far!

            The site is also right next to (literally on the doorstep) of Woodpecker Close. This is sheltered, social housing for the elderly and/or disabled- all bungalows. Many, if not most of these couldn’t go to the Saughall Massie meeting, nor any other for that matter and don’t have internet access. They are not wealthy people who necessarily have a choice in where they live and, often end their lives..

            I am seriously pissed off with people thinking that this issue is simply about protectionism concerning the green belt at all costs and an issue, only of interest or concern to the wealthy or thatched roof owners!.For some of us, it’s about social justice.I can live with it if i’m being naive in thinking that there’s something I can do about this, but I am bloody trying and these blogs and videos help.

            So, to any of your blog followers who are fed up of this issue (I assure you, none of you will be more fed up that this is still an issue than I am), my advice is, either don’t bother reading and do something else useful, or, wonder why it’s of such interest and do something about it!

            • Yes I was at the public consultation meeting in Saughall Massie where this was mentioned and I heard the rather dismissive response along the lines of well wouldn’t they welcome a fire station in their neighbourhood as it would lead to quicker response times in an emergency?

              Some of the emails unearthed by your FOI request are to “Colin Schofield” whose job description is down as “Regional Project Director, North West Fire & Rescue Services PFI Project”.

              I could recheck my notes but can you remember the answer given when Dan Stephens (Chief Fire Officer) was asked at the consultation meeting as to whether if a station was built at Saughall Massie it’d be a station under the PFI scheme?

              Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service pay about £0.5 million/month to Balfour Beatty Fire & Rescue Nw Limited in relation to the fire stations that are part of the PFI project.

              I’m just curious in relation to this point that’s all… I’m also thinking of making a FOI to DCLG for the grant application MFRS made and any terms and conditions of how that money is spent.

              Hope that helps!

              • Sorry John, I don’t recall anyone asking about this at the Saughall Massie meeting. I didn’t know anything about this though, so I may just not have registered it if it was mentioned in the same breath as the DCLG grant. I still haven’t a clue, but know that it wasn’t mentioned at the following Hoylake meeting.

                Dan Stephens did say that the DCLG funding was to merge stations, but, I really don’t know. He said that he’d written to the landowners of Three Lanes End too, but he never has, nor has he or MFRS written to any private landowners requesting to purchase land. He wrote to David Armstrong requesting that Wirral release the land at Saughall Massie on 18th January though- 3 months before the Saughall Massie ‘consultation’.

                If you decide not to make a FOI request to DCLG, please let me know, as I’d like to know the terms and conditions.

                It’ll be interesting to see if the Hardie Brack request reveals anything, but as MFRS have said that all correspondence has been via telephone and therefore, there is no info’ to provide, I won’t be holding my breath.

                £500,000 per month to Balfour Beatty? What on earth for?

                • The FOI request to DCLG I made yesterday and here’s a link to it.

                  In relation to the PFI stations there’s more information on this page.

                  For eight fire stations in Merseyside (Belle Vale, Birkenhead, Bootle/Netherton, Formby, Kirkdale (including ORC), Newton-le-Willows, Southport (shared facilities with North West Ambulance Service)) , Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority contracted with Balfour Beatty Fire & Rescue Nw Limited to build those new fire stations.

                  The contract also includes facilities management at each new fire station, which Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority pay Balfour Beatty Fire & Rescue Nw Limited for on a monthly basis for the next 25 years after the fire station is built.

                  I think an element of the £500,000/month is for the capital cost of rebuilding the fire stations spread over 25 years though. I am thinking of requesting a copy of the contract with Beatty Fire & Rescue Nw Limited during the 2014/15 audit to find this out for sure. However the 20 days a year the public can request such contracts doesn’t start until next month.

            • Here’s from the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service report (Equality Impact Assessment) that was presented to councillors for a decision back in January:

              Meetings refers to the meetings conducted as part of the consultation.

              “Equality Monitoring data shows a breakdown in attendees at these meetings as follows :

              44% Female and 56% Male attendees- this closely reflects the gender breakdown for the Wirral as a whole 16%
              Under 34’s , 35.5% 35-54 and 51.5% over 55+ – this reflected the broad range of age groups across the area
              16% of attendees had a limiting long term illness /disability – this is slightly lower than the average for Wirral being 22.6%
              10% of Attendees at the event were from Non White backgrounds which closely reflects the ethnicity breakdown of the Wirral

              The figures above reflect the average profile of residents across Wirral and this allows us to feel comfortable that the views of different groups of people have been considered when using the consultation for decision making purposes. While considering the draft proposals, participants in all the meetings were encouraged to consider whether proposals have any adverse implications for any vulnerable people and in particular groups with “protected characteristics”: in other words, this question was not just a ‘footnote’ to the main discussion but an intrinsic part of the scrutiny of the proposals.

              Four comments of concern around equality groups were raised from the 32 people
              who attended the focus groups and forum :
              • Frankby Road (Greasby) is not a suitable site for a fire station in the village; children, elderly and disabled use the road near the site
              • The elderly, nursing and residential homes have to be taken into consideration and that does not seem to be a primary focus and yet we have a lot of elderly people in our area
              • We have a lot of elderly
              • West Kirby has elderly people and there are some flats with social disadvantage
              • The aged and disabled people will have some impact from these changes

              Two comments were raised in support of the changes :
              • The Council and FRS are aware of the needs of the elderly and the vulnerable
              • The FRS links up with other agencies – it has to be a multi- agency approach”

              Earlier in the same report it states “The demographics in each of the districts is broadly similar with no significant differences to consider (Significant being + or- 5% difference)”

              However the difference between 16% (percentage of those at meeting with a limiting long term illness or disability) was 6.6% less than the Wirral population (22.6%).

              If the EIA had listed the low numbers of people with a limiting long term illness or disability as significant (it’s even lower if you look at the figures for the online questionnaire), what else should they have done to consult with disabled people, what else should have been in that report as a result and why didn’t councillors spot this?

              Has a similar mistake been already made in the EIA for the reports to the 30th June meeting as the reports for that meeting have already been written?

          • Thank you. Yes, I know this. But it has got this far!

            The site is also right next to (literally on the doorstep) of Woodpecker Close. This is sheltered, social housing for the elderly and/or disabled- all bungalows. Many, if not most of these couldn’t go to the Saughall Massie meeting, nor any other for that matter and don’t have internet access. They are not wealthy people who necessarily have a choice in where they live and, often end their lives..

            I am seriously p****d off with people thinking that this issue is simply about protectionism concerning the green belt at all costs and an issue, only of interest or concern to the wealthy or thatched roof owners!.For some of us, it’s about social justice.I can live with it if i’m being naive in thinking that there’s something I can do about this, but I am trying and these blogs and videos help.

            So, to any of your blog followers who are fed up of this issue (I assure you, none of you will be more fed up that this is still an issue than I am), my advice is, either don’t bother reading and do something else useful, or, wonder why it’s of such interest and do something about it!

  3. G’day John

    Woke up this morning laughing my bits off at the MOST IMPROVED CLOWNCIL IN THE COUNTRY as usual.

    Three arrested in Wirral over alleged £800,000 advertising scam for bogus magazine

    I dreamt that it was the same morons that ran the Wirral “Funny” Bizz magazine and that got that £40,000.00+ cheque pretending to be a nursing home.

    Did they ever get that back John?

    How many cheques did they give for hurt feelings John? Ah bless.

    Has “Spotty Dog” signed the cheques that Gra Gra wouldn’t?

    So many jokes John err I mean questions.

    The ICO must arrive soon my boy.

    Ooroo

    James

    Also proudly known as Brad Davies’s plonker puller.

    Special luv to My Ronnie and Annony Mouse

    • I did make a request to the Metropolitan Police Service who were investigating the fraud.

      See here for the request and responses.

      It got turned down with them first claiming a section 30 exemption (Investigations and proceedings conducted by public authorities), wasn’t that the one Wirral Council used for some of the BIG/ISUS FOI requests?

      At internal review they upheld the section 30 exemption (Investigations and proceedings conducted by public authorities) and also added an exemption under section 40 (personal information). I did however get an apology from the Metropolitan Police Service for taking longer than they should for the internal review.

      However changing the subject slightly, I got a communication from Wirral Council today that at internal review Mr. Tour agreed with me that a section 42 (legal professional privilege) didn’t apply to an FOI request I had made.

      OK, Mr Tour then replaced it with a section 43 exemption (commercial interests) instead but it is rare for a Wirral Council internal review to find that the original exemption claimed was wrong.

      • G’day John

        Can you imagine working with “The Shyster”?

        Ooroo

        Brad Davies plonker puller

      • Good Morning Mr Brace, I noted when you first made FOI Application in Regards to the Money Business, I anticipated the Response you would get from the Met Police.

        In Actual Fact a “Privilege” would exist and it would not be either mentioned to you for either of the cases mentioned above. The Met Police however is a Different Story…….

        Whilst they’re are or maybe, etc Investigating any Case they can be afforded that answer and it would be wrong to pursue them on that.

        I enjoy your monitoring of my little bits, so to speak, it reminds me of the old days and keeps me on the straight and narrow. I like being censored from time to time. Pardon me again ” Come and Get me Pretend Friend, Football Shirt, etc!!!!!

        • I don’t have the time to be censoring comments at the moment.

          Although it may seem like I’m not publishing much this week, there’s a certain amount of behind the scenes work that has to happen with regards to future stories on this blog, so I’m using Friday to catch up!

          To give one example I’ve just done a first (for me) which is writing a letter requesting a copy of an Employment Tribunal judgement involving a Wirral Council employee.

          • Mr Brace, I understand where your coming from. I also note your Opening Title ” Inappropriate Development ” and ” Potential for Significant Harm ” Good Title, Very Apt!!!!!!

  4. Mr Griffiths, Good Morning to you, I missed your Wit and Repartee last week (Not taking the Michael) I probably would be able to put your matters to bed on seeing the evidence and reference the £48,000 and £40,000. I Strongly Suspect I know what both sets of money have been used for and where it has gone too. I am awaiting these Clowns to pull the next Stunt, as I do not intend to put up with their Antic’s for much longer. So these Clowns better get their S— together before, including the Head Clowns!!!!!!!

    • Hi Stephen Harper.

      I notice when you post a comment, you include a broken/incomplete link to http://www.facebook .

      Unfortunately this link is incomplete and as an anti-spam measure comments with links in come to me for approval before publication (so I’ve been editing the broken link out).

      If you want your comments to be published when you post them (rather than when I approve them), could you leave out the broken link?

      Thanks,

      John

  5. G’day John

    From the local rubbish propaganda sheet

    Wirral admits handing out NO fines for dog-fouling since October last year

    Do they also admit not trying to fine the crud that is Wirral “Funny” Bizz four years after stealing hundreds and hundreds and thousands of pounds of Wirral taxpayers’ monies.

    I hope they don’t pick up a turd for four years and the public might be half as wild as me.

    I suppose they have(n’t) lied directly to anyone’s face like “The Football Shirt” does and then gets supported by 65 good for nothings.

    Ooroo

    James

    Pooooooooooooooo

  6. G’day John

    One can only presume that

    Spotty Dog (Just a spot of acne)

    Phil the Dill (Just a dill)

    &
    His ugly twin brother with the comb over from hell.

    Ankles (The ex-mayoresses bloated fiance)

    The Football Shirt (With galah on the back)

    The Chamber Potty (Invest in thy self Wirral)

    The Garbage Lady (Invest in thy self Wirral)

    He who can talk for twenty minutes without breathing or saying anything (He didn’t get the job he he he)

    The Shyster (Keep your gobs shut)

    The Pretend Friend (Sleeping ugly)

    Crabapple (may as well take fudgit and risk it committee to pick up poo for all the use they are)

    The Raving Loony (Forty years scandal Wirral “Funny” Bizz” teatime your great Gra Gra)

    Clowncillor Doughnut (Would sell his soul if he had one)

    Are all dog owners.

    The local rubbish propaganda sheet says

    Wirral Council pledges new crackdown after Globe reveals irresponsible dog-owners are getting off scot-free

    Ooroo

    James

    aka Brad Davies’s plonker puller

    Ps No question Annony and My Ronnie would have dogs.

  7. Mr Brace, I will declare an Interest here, I am the Owner of a Beautiful German Shepherd Dog and they can have a GO AT ME, IF THEY WISH and will I not have a Tail (Tale) to WAG.

  8. […] from Wednesday’s blog post headlined Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “inappropriate development” & &#8…, I thought people might be interested in more of the emails that went between Wirral Council and […]


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