Council (Extraordinary) (Wirral Council) 30th April 2013 | Revisions to the Constitution | Cllr Foulkes “it was the committee system that actually put in the policies that led to the overcharging within the Klonowski report”

Council (Extraordinary) (Wirral Council) 30th April 2013 | Revisions to the Constitution | Cllr Foulkes ” it was the committee system that actually put in the policies that led to the overcharging within the Klonowski report”

Continued from Council (Extraordinary) (Wirral Council) 30th April 2013 | Revisions to the Constitution | Cllr Blakeley “Where will it end, what next? Will Wirral be twinned with Pyongyang?”

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Council (Extraordinary) (Wirral Council) 30th April 2013 | Revisions to the Constitution | Cllr Foulkes “it was the committee system that actually put in the policies that led to the overcharging within the Klonowski report”

Cllr Foulkes thanked the Mayor for his introduction. He said “This is actually one of the times we’ll have a proper debate”. He said that the other two parties (Conservative and the Lib Dems) wanted effectively no change to the constitution. Cllr Foulkes said if they’d genuinely wanted to change the constitution they could’ve sat down with their mentors and brought forward proposals. He said the only person who’d done any work on it was the Council Leader [Cllr Phil Davies].

He said that Cllr Green had the audacity to talk about the brown bin tax, he [Cllr Green] had had the opportunity to move an objection at Budget Council but hadn’t do so. Cllr Foulkes said that Cllr Green had been in power along with Cllr Harney and he asked did they take the Council to Shrangri-La? He answered, “No they didn’t. They had their chance at the time, they had the opportunity, but did not do so.”

Cllr Foulkes said, “I’m going to get lectures tonight about getting rid of two committees, one of them is around Adult Social Services and adult safeguarding. We had a training session on Monday night on adult safeguarding, a very informative one, all about how the restructures, how the Council’s delivering it, the staff, the people, one event. Who turned up? How many Conservative Members [councillors] turned up to that training session? How many? Not one, not one, sadly I don’t know what’s going on within the Liberal Democrat Group, we’ve read the headlines about it, I don’t know what was going on there, but none of those turned up and sadly I have to say only five Members [councillors] turned up and well, gladly they were all Labour Members [councillors] who bothered to turn up. If that’s the measure of the all party contribution to learning about safeguarding then we still have some way to go.”

He continued, “It can be enshrined in the year’s work or the work program of the new committee that will take over that and there are lessons to be learnt for combining looking at children’s safeguarding and adult safeguarding. That is a lesson that was learnt from the past.”

Cllr Foulkes also said, “I will remind this Council though, it was the committee system that actually put in the policies that led to the overcharging within the Klonowski report. It was the committee system that made that decision. If you think the committee system is foolproof it ain’t. If you think the Cabinet system is foolproof it isn’t.”

He said, “What I am shocked at is the lack of engagement by certain senior Members [councillors] in the process we have gone through. We’ve been to the Floral Pavillion and the atmosphere is better than in this Chamber.” … “We have a training mafia who are apparently monitoring us and making criticisms of us going to training sessions.” … “It maybe that we can have localised planning decisions, it maybe that we can have localised licensing decisions…”.

Continues at Council (Extraordinary) (Wirral Council) 30th April 2013 | Revisions to the Constitution | Cllr John Hale “these proposals should be consigned to the dustbin where they belong”.

Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th September 2012

Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th September 2012

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Part 1 of 4 Licensing, Health & Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th September 2012
Part 2 of 4 Licensing, Health & Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th September 2012
Part 3 of 4 Licensing, Health & Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th September 2012
Part 4 of 4 Licensing, Health & Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th September 2012
All parts 1-4 Licensing, Health & Safety and General Purposes Committee 25th September 2012 (Wirral Council)

Licensing Act 2003 Sub-Committee 22/11/2011 (Four Seasons, 265-267 Seabank Road, Wallasey)

The Licensing Committee due to take place today to review the Four Seasons premises licence in New Brighton ward did not take place as planned.

The following councillors did however turn up:-

Cllr Denise Roberts
Cllr John Salter
Cllr Mike Hornby

Officers:
David Abraham (Legal adviser)
Margaret Calvert (Licensing Team Leader)
Committee Clerk: Unknown

Others:
A Merseyside Police officer
Solicitor for those holding the premises licence at the Four Seasons which was Andrew Church-Taylor of Farleys Solicitors LLP
People holding the premises licence for the Four Seasons
A number of other people (at least two) plus myself and another member of the public.

However the meeting was not held, for possibly multiple reasons. There was a combination of the reasons outlined here about a mistake in the agenda in my letter here which related to the desire of Merseyside Police and Wirral Council to hold the committee in private without the public present and the complexity of the case meaning that starting at 2pm, you can’t do such a complex case justice. Things have to be done at such meetings according to the
Licensing Act 2003 (Hearings) Regulations 2005 No.44 which were amended by the Licensing Act 2003 (Hearings) (Amendment) Regulations 2005 No.78.

There was also talk in the lobby of a councillor being late because he arrives by public transport, but I’m not sure which councillor Margaret Calvert was referring to. As councillors are drawn from a panel of fifteen councillors (three of which were there) it doesn’t narrow it down much, although it may have been the Chair of the previous meeting.

The decision to hold it in private had been made at a previous meeting whose minutes for this meeting have (not at the time of writing on the 22nd November) been published and the committee clerk who wrote the draft minutes wasn’t present. The main error was writing “Licensing Act 2003” instead of “The Licensing Act 2003 (Hearings) Regulations 2005”, which in itself was a minor error, but as it had been made at a previous meeting on the 21st October complicates things further.

As the public representations made during Licensing Act 2003 subcommittee meetings can affect the decision made, excluding the public based on a law that was the wrong one could open the decision up to appeal in the Magistrate’s Court if the public were excluded unlawfully.

If it was Wirral Council’s error and they lost they’d have to pay the legal costs of the other party which could end up being considerable. There is some case-law on the subject of licensing appeals, the police, the Magistrates Court (which my father used to work for) and the High Courts of Justice but it’s too late to go into here and this blog post is too long already. It’s a very complex area of law.

My Dad commented that he felt things were dealt better when the Magistrate’s Court used to deal with licensing issues before it got switched to the local authority (Wirral Council). His view was that a court knows the law better than a local authority does as they have experienced staff that deal with providing legal advice to magistrates (as he used to). Wirral Council does have legally qualified staff to deal with legal matters, such as David Abraham and at least seventeen others (plus external legal advisors on an ad hoc basis).

The problem is the agendas aren’t put together by lawyers, they’re put together by committee clerks who don’t need to have a legal qualification and have to rely on the advice given to them by the legal department about what is legal.