MFRA Chair Cllr Hanratty wants to “move on” on issue of councillors’ expenses

MFRA Chair Cllr Hanratty wants to “move on” on issue of councillors’ expenses

MFRA Chair Cllr Hanratty wants to “move on” on issue of councillors’ expenses

                                                                

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Video of the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority meeting starting at the agenda item on the delegation

Cllr Dave Hanratty (on the right) speaking at a meeting of the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority 20th October 2015
Cllr Dave Hanratty (on the right) speaking at a meeting of the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority 20th October 2015

Here’s an exchange between myself and the Chair of the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority Cllr Dave Hanratty at a public meeting of the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority today.

The reference to note 29 which is part of the statement of accounts for 2014/15 is below.

29. Members’ Allowances

The Authority comprises of 18 councillors from the 5 districts of Merseyside. The total allowances paid to members within the year were:

  2014/15 2013/14
£000 £000
Allowances 225 239
Expenses 14 23
239 262
         

The amounts reported to the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority AGM in June 2015 are in this table here show allowances of £213,690.44 (total of the first eight columns) and expenses of £7,708.34 (total of scale subsist, trav & subsist, overnight & mileage columns).


JOHN BRACE: Earlier this year, on the 11th June, the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority met. Agenda item 9 (Members Allowance Payments), included a table of allowance and expense payments for councillors on the MFRA for the previous financial year (2014£15).

The report that accompanied the table referred to the regulations. They require publication each year of the amounts paid out under the Members Allowance Scheme for each councillor in the categories of basic allowance, special responsibility allowance, dependants’ carers’ allowance, travelling and subsistence allowance and co-optees’ allowance.

However the expenses in that table only included amounts claimed back by councillors through expense claims. That table did not include amounts where the MFRA was invoiced directly for travel and accommodation expenses rather than councillors being reimbursed. These amounts where MFRA were invoiced directly total around six thousand pounds.

The regulations however require the table to include all payments made under the Members Allowance Scheme irrespective of whether they are paid directly by MFRA or claimed back by councillors using expense claims.

The table of figures for allowances reported to the AGM on the 11th June also didn’t include the employer National Insurance costs of £10,151.59p paid on the allowances.

Ultimately councillors are accountable to the people of Merseyside, so what reassurances can you give that next time the figures are published for 2015/16 that they will reflect the actual cost of councillors’ allowances and expenses?

CLLR DAVE HANRATTY (CHAIR): OK, thank you Mr. Brace. I understand that there’s been a number of email exchanges between yourself and officers of the Authority to explain to you the breakdown of the cost of how they’ve been calculated. Is that correct?

JOHN BRACE: Yes, there have been emails between us.

CLLR DAVE HANRATTY (CHAIR): I also understand that this has been shared with the District Auditor? Is that correct?

JOHN BRACE: Grant Thornton, yes.

CLLR DAVE HANRATTY (CHAIR): I also understand that this has been approved the way the finances have been reported to the Authority, it has been found it’s been confirmed, there has never been an issue with that? They’ve accepted the way it’s been calculated, the way it’s reported.

JOHN BRACE: They accepted the note in the Statement of Accounts includes the amounts I’ve referred to yes.

CLLR DAVE HANRATTY (CHAIR): Well in that case Mr. Brace I think you’ve received the response from the Authority and that’s been sufficient. OK?

Just before we finish on that, I know that the government have brought in freedom of information and it’s open to the public to ask questions about documents of the Authority, but what I would say is that because of the diminished resources that the Authority now finds itself in, I think when you look at the time that officers and resources are given to individuals who according to the Authority are asking for certain information, I think they need to consider the impact this has on the Service, on the officers? time and also on our financial resources and this shouldn’t be for somebody’s pastime or for somebody’s hobby when you think about the financial situation that we find ourselves in and I think the Authority needs to examine this and maybe report back to the appropriate minister about maybe if circumstances may be open to abuse.

I’m not happy with that myself, we’ve got a lot of demands within the Service, within the Authority and I don’t want any officers’ time being wasted by somebody coming in just to fill their own pastime. I think it’s absolutely appalling and I think there’s something that should be done about it.

So on that point, I think that the deputation should just be noted and we’ll move on.


As Cllr Hanratty refers to Grant Thornton’s approval of the way the figures are presented in the Statement of Accounts, I thought it best to include the only two emails from Grant Thornton to myself on this in full here.


      

11th September 2015 email from Grant Thornton

Dear Mr Brace

Thank you for your email, the contents of which are noted.

I have forwarded your email to ‎Mike Thomas who is the Director responsible for our audit of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service. Mike will respond to you in due course.

Yours sincerely


15th September 2015 email from Grant Thornton

Dear Mr Brace

I have been copied into your email regarding the queries you have raised with Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority regarding members expenses. In the first instance this is a matter for the Authority to deal with and to respond to you. My staff are aware of the issue and will keep in touch with MFRA regarding this matter. Hopefully this can be resolved very quickly in the next couple of days.

Yours sincerely,


In other words the issue of whether the correct figures were used in the table for the AGM meeting was never addressed by Grant Thornton (at least in emails to me) which Grant Thornton said was a matter for the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority.


This is what MFRA’s Treasurer stated in an email on the 16th September 2015.

Mr Brace,
        With regard to items B) and C), the Statement of Accounts disclosure of £14k for expenses, as allowed per the CIPFA CODE of Practice, informs the reader of the accounts of the total gross non-employee costs associated with supporting the governance/member service. It goes beyond the disclosure required under legislation and therefore exceeds the £7k reported in the AGM.

        I have explained this to the Authority/s Auditors Grant Thornton and they are satisfied with this explanation.

CIPFA CODE of practice – Final Accounts
 
Members’ Allowances (5)
I77 Authorities are required to disclose the totals of members/ allowances (and expenses) paid in the year …. Authorities in England and Wales might consider whether it would be helpful to provide the wider disclosures in order to give a full picture of the amounts received by members.

Yours

Ian Cummins

Treasurer
Merseyside Fire & Rescue Authority
Headquarters
Bridle Road
Bootle
Merseyside
L30 4YD


However look closely at the table reported to the AGM and you/ll find nothing in the travel and subsistence column for Cllr Newman. Below is a two page invoice for taxi expenses for Cllr Newman.

Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority councillors expenses page 47 Cabfind.com Cllr Ted Grannell £13 80 Cllr Newman £25
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority councillors expenses page 47 Cabfind.com Cllr Ted Granell £13 80 Cllr Newman £25
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority councillors expenses page 48 Cabfind.com Cllr Newman £22 Cllr Newman £22
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority councillors expenses page 48 Cabfind.com Cllr Newman £22 Cllr Newman £22

And yes, that/s only £69+VAT of the ~£6k. The other 47 pages of this information not included in the expenses figure for councillors at the MFRA AGM are here.

In fact the report on the figures to the AGM states “It is important to note that these are reimbursements for time and expenses incurred by Members, and are not payments in relation to travel and event bookings made directly by MFRA.”

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5 questions for Wirral Council’s auditors

5 questions for Wirral Council’s auditors

5 questions for Wirral Council’s auditors

                                  

Dear Mike Thomas (Grant Thornton),

I am writing to you in your capacity as the auditor for Wirral Council.

Last Friday I received a series of emails from Wirral Council’s Head of Legal and Member Services Surjit Tour about a comment left by an individual on a blog I write about Wirral Council. The comment made was about Graham Burgess (Wirral Council’s Chief Executive) and was in relation to his invitation to some Wirral Council councillors offering them tickets to the Open Golf Championship.

The first email from Mr. Tour contained the lines “This is clearly a serious matter and I formally request that you immediately remove the email and the associated commentary concerning this subject matter from your blog.

The Council would prefer to avoid taking action in respect of this entry; however, I must put you on notice that the Council will have little alternative but to consider alternative action should you refuse or fail to remove this entry from your blog forthwith.”

It transpired later that the email was genuine (despite Mr. Surjit Tour first claiming it wasn’t).

The Local Authorities (Indemnities for Members and Officers) Order 2004 prevent local authorities providing insurance or indemnities to officers (or councillors) to start libel cases. However in this case Wirral Council’s Head of Legal and Member Services seemed to be making a threat of exactly that on behalf of Wirral Council’s Chief Executive Graham Burgess.

Other people have noticed comments about Wirral Council officers have disappeared from the local newspaper website (Wirral Globe), therefore I would like you to investigate and respond to the following questions please:

1. Has Wirral Council ever sued any individual or organisation since The Local Authorities (Indemnities for Members and Officers) Order 2004 came into effect on the 23rd November 2004?

2. Why are the resources of the authority being used to make such threats when Wirral Council is barred in law from starting such a claim in the courts?

3. Is there currently any indemnity or insurance provided to officers within the terms of The Local Authorities (Indemnities for Members and Officers) Order 2004 and if so which officers does this cover and at what cost (or approximate cost)?

4. If there is any indemnity or insurance provided to officers (or councillors) has this been agreed by councillors and if so when?

5. How many times over the last 12 months have the media (whether print, broadcast or online) received communications from Wirral Council threatening legal action unless they remove content?

Yours sincerely,

John Brace

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Improvement Board (15th November 2013) The first five minutes (a transcript)

Improvement Board (15th November 2013) The first five minutes (a transcript)

Improvement Board (15th November 2013) The first five minutes (a transcript)

                          

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Above is video from the first twenty-six minutes of the Improvement Board. If you want to watch the whole meeting from start to finish you can watch using the playlist. If I was to write a report on the meeting, I don’t think it would really do it justice. Therefore it would be better instead to have a verbatim account of what was said (which I’ll be adding to the video as subtitles).

Those at the meeting got this handout which had the responses to the consultation and questions submitted to the meeting (although it’s best to read this about the questions as some had subtle alterations). The handout also contained the text of motions agreed at meetings of Wirral Council’s Coordinating Committee and at Wirral Council’s Audit and Risk Management Committee about the review. At the later meeting Cllr Simon Mountney voted against the resolution. So here’s the transcript of the first five minutes.

Joyce Redfearn, Chair of the Improvement Board: A very, very warm welcome. It is most encouraging to see so many people here.

If you can’t hear, can you please wave hands and indicate to us and we’ll try and project better. If you do want to move forward there are more seats at the front if that helps people but you know wherever you’re comfortable you are very welcome to stay in terms of the proceedings.

I probably should begin with introductions of the people sitting at the top table just so that you know who we are but we have deliberately taken away the tables and tried to make it a more relaxed and more informal situation. So we hope that that will create the right atmosphere this afternoon for you to be able to ask the questions and make your comments that you wish to make in terms of the review.

I’m Joyce Redfearn, I’m the Chair of the Improvement Board.

Graham Burgess: I’m Graham Burgess, Wirral Council Chief Executive

Cllr Phil Davies: I’m Phil Davies, Leader of the Council.

Dr Gill Taylor: I’m Gill Taylor from the Local Government Association and member of the Improvement Board.

Mike Thomas: I’m Mike Thomas, I’m the Council’s external auditor.

Joyce Redfearn: And we have other members of the Improvement Board in the audience, both past and present members of the Board so no doubt at times they may want to also join in as Board members in terms of the comments and queries that we’ve received.

To try to help things because we have had rather I’m pleased we’ve had a very strong response to the consultation and to the opportunity to ask questions. We have put out I hope everybody can see a piece of paper that says Feedback from partners but then it goes onto the questions which will be the main focus of today’s session and I have also as Chair agreed that Martin Morton with whom much of this began should have the opportunity to also make a statement at the end of the meeting at the end of the questions, so I hope people are comfortable with that, ok.

I’m not going to dwell on the initial feedback. We wanted you to be aware that there have been responses and this was actually yesterday evening when we’d just received these and we are expecting more potentially through the course of the day up to five o’clock this evening. They do give a flavour of some of the responses that are coming back and I hope this is helpful in terms of seeing what others are saying as well as as hearing today what the people in this audience actually feel and think about the review report, the work that’s been done by the Improvement Board and I suppose fundamentally the issue is where and how well prepared Wirral Council now is for the next stage which it still knows is an improvement journey.

Nobody is saying today this is the end of the story. This is part of where we will be continuing, but in a different form to see further improvements in Wirral Council.

So if we’re all happy to do so, I’d like to turn to the first question, so the heading, it’s on page one, two, three, four, five if you’re with me, questions or feedback submitted by the public and the first one is from J Yates.

I don’t know if J Yates is in the room and wants to identify themselves. It’s not necessary, we will actually take the question whether people want to idetify or not and themselves associated with that. OK, the first question there is about the timing and not having given at least five working days notice, I’ll ask Graham to respond to the question please.

Graham Burgess: I think I’ll stand up if that’s ok. First of all the requirement for public notice of meetings applies to statutory meetings of the Council, this isn’t a statutory meeting of the Council, this is a meeting of the Improvement Board and therefore the regulations in that respect don’t apply, but clearly we like to follow good practice where we can, so immediately following the last Improvement Board meeting because we knew there was a really tight timescale, we met with representatives of the media and made sure there was extensive coverage of the decision of the Improvement Board to hold this meeting and indeed I think in the Echo and in the Globe and on Radio Merseyside there was specific coverage of the intention to hold this meeting at this time on this day and that was almost two weeks I think before this meeting had been held.

So we did make sure there was coverage in those newspapers and also we updated with both the Globe and the Echo to ensure there’s some coverage even in the last day or two of this meeting taking place. So on that basis we think that we have advertised, in fact we’ve advertised this meeting, via our partners in the press, far more vigorously and intensively than we would a normal Council meeting.

Joyce Redfearn: Thanks very much.

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West Wirral Area Forum 6/10/2011, PACSPE (Parks and Countryside Services Procurement Exercise) contract Part 6

Dave Green continued that since 2008 different administrations had agreed to the need for Wirral Council to save money. There were pension costs to do with the contractor joining Merseyside Pension Fund, however there had been briefings and a report on this which detailed the risks and options.

The lack of a bid for in-house provision had been agreed by Bill Norman, Director of Law, Human Resources and Asset Management and Ian Coleman, Director of Finance. The Cabinet resolution called for a report to a further meeting in November detailing a three to five-year business plan. The Cabinet decision had not been executed, although the minutes had been published as the other political parties had called it in. The position was that on the 22nd September a decision had been made, but Cllr Green had submitted a call-in last night (5th October) so it couldn’t be enacted.

Mr. Green said there were time critical issues to do with mobilising the cheapest and best contractor or restructuring the service. However it was “in the hands of the politicians”. He thought it was a good tender at a cheap price. He had sought advice from the District Auditor about the inflation risks. Mr. Green thought it would be November before it was resolved and until then it was in limbo. He said “he never thought politics would impact on grass cutting”.

Cllr Jeff Green said he was interested in people’s questions.

Martin Harrison said he had been on the Parks Steering Group and was the Secretary of the Wirral Parks Forum (which is the forum of the Friends Groups).

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