Category: David Ball

Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station "inappropriate development" & "potential for significant harm"

Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “inappropriate development” & “potential for significant harm”

Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “inappropriate development” & “potential for significant harm”

                                                              

Dan Stephens (Chief Fire Officer, Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service) answers questions at a public consultation meeting in Saughall Massie to discuss proposals for a new fire station (20th April 2015). Kieran Timmins (Deputy Chief Executive) is on the right.
Dan Stephens (Chief Fire Officer) answers questions at a public consultation meeting in Saughall Massie to discuss proposals for a new fire station (20th April 2015)

One of the long running sagas that this blog has reported on has been the future of Upton and West Kirby fire stations. Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service have had two twelve week consultations on this in the last year. The first consultation was on the controversial Greasby library/community centre site in the heart of Greasby village. However in a dramatic U-turn following opposition Wirral Council who owned the site in question withdrew it from consideration part way through the consultation.

The second consultation, which finished on the 18th May and provoked similar levels of opposition to that shown in Greasby but for different reasons also involved a piece of land in Wirral Council’s ownership in Saughall Massie. A decision by Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority following the second consultation is expected towards the end of June.

Yesterday evening Wirral Council responded to a Freedom of Information request about the e-mails that were sent between Wirral Council and Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service about this issue.

The emails make for interesting reading. As there are so many emails in three bundles of correspondence I may split this into different blog posts with half of the first bundle of emails below.

I haven’t included copies of the maps that were provided, however if you wish to view them, they’re on the Whatdotheyknow website. I haven’t corrected any typographical errors in the emails below.

Timmins, Kieran

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent:25 September 2013 18:31
To: NyreeCollinson@Merseyfire.gov.uk
CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; ColinSchofield@merseyfire.gov.uk
Subject: Request for sites

Nyree, Please can you forward this to David Ball/David Armstrong at the Wirral. Thanks.

Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-

A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding.
Additional documents

As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-

a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area

The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 04 November 2013 13:39
To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
CC: Schofield, Colin
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Hi Gents

Have you had a chance to consider what options might be available.

Regards

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 04 November 2013 12:52
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Kieran, is this the email you’re looking for?

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108

From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 26 September 2013 09:36
To: David Ball – Regeneration Dept., Wirral Borough Council (davidball@wirral.gov.uk);’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Please see below from Kieran Timmins

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 September 2013 18:31
To: Collinson, Nyree
CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; Schofield, Colin
Subject: Request for sites

Dear David/David

Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-

A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding.
Additional documents

As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-

a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area

The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 15 November 2013 13:48
To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
CC: Schofield, Colin
Subject: RE: Request for sites

Hi Gents

Have you had a chance to consider this yet?

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 04 November 2013 13:39
To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
CC: Schofield, Colin
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Hi Gents

Have you had a chance to consider what options might be available.

Regards

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 04 November 2013 12:52
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Kieran, is this the email you’re looking for?

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108

From: Collinson, Nyree
Sent: 26 September 2013 09:36
To: David Ball – Regeneration Dept., Wirral Borough Council (davidball@wirral.gov.uk);’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’
Subject: FW: Request for sites

Please see below from Kieran Timmins

Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 September 2013 18:31
To: Collinson, Nyree
CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; Schofield, Colin
Subject: Request for sites

Dear David/David

Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-

A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding.
Additional documents

As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-

a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area

The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.

Many thanks

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

Timmins, Kieran

From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 15 November 2013 13:50
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Out of Office Autoreply: Request for sites

Thank you for your e-mail.

I am out of the office on Friday afternoon in a series of meetings. I will be accessing e-mails from time to time but if you need anything urgently then please contact Annie Hasprey or Melanie Sloan on 0151 691 8395 and they will be able to help you.

Regards,

David

David Ball
Head of Regeneration and Planning,
Wirral Council

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com

Timmins, Kieran
From: Halpin, Colleen S. on behalf of Armstrong, David
Sent: 11 December 2013 14:55
To: Murphy(M), Paul; Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin
CC: Royle, Jeanette E.
Subject: Request for Sites

Dear Colin, Paul and Kieran

Thank you for your emails and messages regarding a potential site in Greasby for a new fire station. I apologise for not replying sooner. I am afraid a new phone and a series of hospital appointments are slowing me down!

In order to discuss the Greasby site further, can you please contact Tony Simpson on tonysimpson@wirral.gov.uk, tell 666 3892, who will share with you the relevant plans and land ownership issues.

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com

Timmins, Kieran

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 12 December 2013 09:58
To: ‘Armstrong, David’
Cc: Royle, Jeanette E.; Schofield, Colin
Subject: RE: Request for Sites

Thanks David, much appreciated. Hope you are ok?

Not sure if Tony can pick this up but it strikes me as making sense if (presuming a Wirral owned site is identified in Greasby) that a land swap for the youth zone in Birkenhead might be a sensible approach for tidying up ownership etc…….. what do you think?

Take care

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Halpin, Colleen S. on behalf of Armstrong, David
Sent: 11 December 2013 14:55
To: Murphy(M), Paul; Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin
CC: Royle, Jeanette E.
Subject: Request for Sites

Dear Colin, Paul and Kieran

Thank you for your emails and messages regarding a potential site in Greasby for a new fire station. I apologise for not replying sooner. I am afraid a new phone and a series of hospital appointments are slowing me down!

In order to discuss the Greasby site further, can you please contact Tony Simpson on tonysimpson@wirral.gov.uk, tell 666 3892, who will share with you the relevant plans and land ownership issues.

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com

Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk

If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure this email and attachments are free from virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com

From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk

From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Kieran, Timmins

From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk

From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com

Timmins, Kieran

From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08
To:Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi Kieran

Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-

Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL

Regards

Tony

Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk

From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
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If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

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Timmins, Kieran

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:10
To: ‘Simpson, Tony’
Cc: Subramanayam, Anatha; Schofield, Colin; Woods, Stewart
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for prompt research Tony….. although just looking at the listing makes me think this could be complicated!!

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08
To:Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi Kieran

Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-

Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL

Regards

Tony

Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk

From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/

Timmins, Kieran

From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:14
To: Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Nothing’s ever easy these days!

Timmins, Kieran

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:10
To: ‘Simpson, Tony’
Cc: Subramanayam, Anatha; Schofield, Colin; Woods, Stewart
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for prompt research Tony….. although just looking at the listing makes me think this could be complicated!!

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk

www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08
To:Timmins, Kieran
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi Kieran

Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-

Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL

Regards

Tony

Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06
To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Hi David

Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!

In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..

  • The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
  • All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located

Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything

All the best

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34
To: Subramanayam, Anatha
Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony
Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC

Thanks for this.

A couple of initial responses.

– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.

– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.

– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.

– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.

– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.

Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!

Regards

David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive

Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk

From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:]
Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16
To: Simpson, Tony
Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran
Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Importance: High

Hello Tony,

As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:

  • WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
  • You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :

    1. With community centre
    2. With community centre & Library
    3. Without community centre and Library

  • You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
  • As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
  • As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
    1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
    2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
    3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
    4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.

I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.

Regards

Anu

Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .

Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.

Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.

http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/

Timmins, Kieran

From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014

From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

Timmins, Kieran

From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:23
To: Ball, David S; Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

The land is not Council owned.

Tony

From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014

From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

Timmins, Kieran

From: Timmins, Kieran
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:34
To: ‘Simpson, Tony’; Ball, David S.
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Thanks Tony

Do you think it might be a suitable site? Do you know offhand anything about the ownership or history?

Thanks

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk

From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:23
To: Ball, David S; Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

The land is not Council owned.

Tony

From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014

From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

Timmins, Kieran

From: Ball, David S
Sent: 29 April 2014 12:58
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David; Simpson, Tony
Subject FW: Greasby sites

Kieran,

Here is the view on this site from my Forward Planning team. It seems that there would be some planning policy issues here but I can explore it further if you want me to.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014

From: Entwhistle, John C.
Sent: 29 April 2014 12:56
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

David – the land on the opposite site of Frankby road to St John the Divine is in the Green Belt so a fire station would be inappropriate development and very special circumstances would have to be demonstrated. However there is potential for significant harm to the Green Belt in this location because of its role in maintaining separation between Greasby and Frankby.

John Entwistle
Principal Forward Planning Officer,
Forward Planning,
Regeneration and Environment,
Wirral Council,
Town Hall, Brighton Street
Wallasey, Merseyside
CH44 8ED
Telephone: 0151 691 8221
email: johnentwistle@wirral.gov.uk
Fax: 0151 691 8273
Visit our website www.wirral.gov.uk
Please save paper and print out only what is necessary.

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014

From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 12:19
To: Entwhistle, John C.
Subject: FW: Greasby sites
Importance: High

John,

Do we know anything about this site?

Would a fire station be an acceptable use?

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014

From: Simpson, Tony
Sent: 29 April 2014 10:23
To: Ball, David S; Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

The land is not Council owned.

Tony

From: Ball, David S.
Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06
To: Timmins, Kieran
Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David
Subject: RE: Greasby sites

Kieran,

I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.

David

DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council

Tel: 0151 691 8395
Fax: 0151 691 8191
Email: davidball@wirral.gov.uk

Wirral Host of the Open Championship 2014

From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk]
Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54
To: Ball, David S.
Subject: Greasby sites

Hi David

Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?

Cheers

Kieran

Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD

Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224

Continues at Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “there would be some planning policy issues”.

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Whistleblowers assembled in Committee Room 1 to hear apologies from Wirral Council over a toxic whistleblowing saga involving secrecy, national, local and regional government, internal and external audit, the private sector, ££££s, senior managers, contracts and Wirral Council

Whistleblowers assembled in Committee Room 1 to hear apologies from Wirral Council over a toxic whistleblowing saga involving secrecy, national, local and regional government, internal and external audit, the private sector, ££££s, senior managers, contracts and Wirral Council

Whistleblowers assembled in Committee Room 1 to hear apologies from Wirral Council over a toxic whistleblowing saga involving secrecy, national, local and regional government, internal and external audit, the private sector, ££££s, senior managers, contracts and Wirral Council

                                                 

Nigel Hobro (standing) addresses a special meeting of the Audit and Risk Management Committee of Wirral Council 8th October 2014 L to R Cllr Adam Sykes, Cllr David Elderton, Andrew Mossop, Surjit Tour, Nigel Hobro (c) John Brace
Nigel Hobro (standing) addresses the Audit and Risk Management Committee of Wirral Council 8th October 2014 L to R Cllr Adam Sykes, Cllr David Elderton, Andrew Mossop, Surjit Tour, Nigel Hobro (c) John Brace | still taken from video

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Above is a playlist of all parts of the Audit and Risk Management Committee (Wirral Council) meeting of 8th October 2014 held in Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall starting at 6.00pm (apologies for recording problems)

Audit and Risk Management Committee
Cllr Jim Crabtree (Chair, Labour)
Cllr Ron Abbey (Vice-Chair, Labour)
Cllr Paul Doughty (Labour)
Cllr Matthew Patrick (Labour)
Cllr John Hale (Conservative spokesperson)
Cllr Adam Sykes (Conservative)
Cllr David Elderton (Conservative)
Cllr Stuart Kelly (Lib Dem spokesperson)

The Audit and Risk Management Committee of Wirral Council met for a special meeting about BIG/ISUS on the evening of 8th October 2014 whilst a thunderstorm raged outside Wallasey Town Hall. This was a continuing from its adjourned special meeting about the same topic on 22nd July 2014. For details of what happened at its meeting of the 22nd July 2014 see my earlier blog post Incredible first 5 minutes of Wirral Council councillors’ public meeting to discuss BIG & ISUS investigations.

The meeting started with a minute of silence for Mark Delap. Mark Delap was one of the Wirral Council employees that used to take minutes at its public meetings and had died recently.

After the minute of silence was over, the Chair asked for declarations of interest.

Cllr Matthew Patrick declared an interest due to a friendship with Nigel Hobro’s son (Nigel Hobro is one of the whistleblowers and spoke during the meeting itself).

Surjit Tour gave some brief advice to Cllr Matthew Patrick as to whether his interest was personal or prejudicial.

The Chair thanked Surjit Tour for the advice he had given to Cllr Matthew Patrick.

The Chair, Cllr Jim Crabtree then explained that there had been a lot of allegations since the issue had first been raised in 2011. There was a large volume of paperwork for the meeting, however details were redacted to protect businesses and companies. Also the names of officers and other people were blacked out. He also referred to commercial sensitivities and how they had gone to proper steps to protect identities.

He reminded people of the risk of legal challenge and Wirral Council’s liabilities. Cllr Crabtree asked everyone not to name names and continued by saying that any issues Wirral Council officers had addressed, they had done on behalf of the Council.

Cllr Stuart Kelly asked a question on the information that was redacted. He referred to a challenge to paragraph j, that was redacted in the papers to the July meeting, but was now provided. He wanted assurance from the legal officer Surjit Tour that the redactions were only in the categories as just outlined by the Chair.

Mr. Tour explained that the redactions had taken place to make sure that nobody by reasonable inquiry and information already in the public domain could piece together who or what the redacted information referred to and who the people redacted were. He added that in some cases it was unfortunately necessary to redact a lot of information mindful of what was already in the public domain, people could “fill in the gaps” which would expose Wirral Council to a liability.

The Chair invited Nigel Hobro to speak for at most fifteen minutes.

To be continued…

However below are some of my personal observations about this meeting I’ve started writing up above and a bit of a compare and contrast with two different special meetings of the Audit and Risk Management Committee held years apart (but both dealing with Wirral Council’s response to whistleblowers (one internal, one external).

It shows how history has a habit of endlessly repeating itself and is based on my opinion as one of the few people who was actually present at both meetings.

There are similarities between this public meeting and an earlier public meeting many years ago of the Audit and Risk Management Committee to decide on a response to the whistleblowing of former Wirral Council employee Martin Morton. Back then (years ago) there were arguments by politicians over a series of meetings over how much money should be paid back to those that were overcharged and to what year you go back to with the refunds.

Even when refunds were agreed by politicians, Wirral Council took so long that some of the people involved had died and in order cases (the ones that were still alive) the amounts were so large, that Wirral Council officers didn’t want to pay the people involved because they thought it would have a knock on effect on their benefits and officers doubted that some of the people had the capacity to be able to look after their own financial affairs.

Sadly the decision back then was fudged (which is partly what led to the problems later). Martin Morton’s concerns were also far, far wider than the overcharging issue, his concerns also involved allegations of the misuse of public money to fund organisations with links to serious and organised crime, serious allegations of serious crimes against vulnerable people who had apparently at the time not been investigated thoroughly enough, woefully poor corporate governance at Wirral Council, terribly weak political oversight due to put it frankly chaos back then and ultimately Mr Morton paid a personal price because people in Wirral Council tried to repeatedly punish him for daring to blow the whistle. Due to the large financial amounts involved, Cabinet had to sign off on the large expenditure that resulted.

One day before the AKA report was finally released to the public, the two middle managers involved in this matter were each paid a six figure sum each to leave Wirral Council.

At the earlier meeting (and at least one person on the Audit and Risk Management Committee is the same person as back then), the Chair back then accused one politician (Cllr Ron Abbey) of either not reading the papers for the meeting as they were asking questions that were already answered there or of completely misunderstanding what they had read (if they had read them). At this time the Chair was of a different political party to the Labour councillor (Cllr Ron Abbey) & in the interests of impartiality (with absolutely no offence meant towards one of my local councillors Cllr Jim Crabtree) many other local authorities have an unwritten rule that the Chair of the Audit and Risk Management Committee is not from the same political party as the ruling administration to ensure independence.

Knowing Cllr Crabtree as I do, I know that even if a councillor stepped out of line at a meeting he was chairing, even if the councillor was from the same political party as he was, Cllr Crabtree’s personality is such that he would frankly realise that it’s in the “public interest” to hold his fellow councillors to account even if he would have to be careful how he did this in public.

After it seems part of the reasons why Labour got a small majority on Wirral Council is because councillors from that party woke up the news that the Wirral public expected them to hold other politicians to account in public even if these were other councillors from the same political party.

Bill Norman (who left in somewhat mysterious circumstances in 2012) was the legal adviser to that earlier Audit and Risk Committee meeting years ago, not Surjit Tour as it is now. The issue of blacking out all the names (and other details) in the published papers was addressed by Bill Norman then with broadly similar reasons given to those given by Mr. Tour many years later. However I will point out that the culture of legal practice is such that confidentiality, especially when it comes to active proceedings is extremely important to maintain!

At the time this written material authored by Mr. Morton included in the papers for the meeting was also redacted, so this aspect of whistleblowing hasn’t changed much at all over the years at Wirral Council.

Wirral Council, back then and as it seems now has a fear of being sued. Although if they were open and transparent wouldn’t Wirral Council welcome judicial oversight of their decisions as it would give Wirral Council the chance for someone independent to look at it and the opportunity to defend themselves in court if they had done nothing wrong?

Perhaps it’s unfair to say a fear of being sued, it’s a fear at Wirral Council of being sued and losing and the results that flow from that which could be a combination of large financial penalties (or other things) as well as the fact that court reporters such as myself or the publications they publish in can’t actually be sued under British law for court reporting as long as we comply with the few rules that apply as court reporting attracts absolute privilege. All court hearings whether public or private are recorded by the court on tape anyway and in theory transcripts can be ordered.

Some may say for a large local Council (covering a population of ~320,000), whilst obviously they have their own organisational reputation to consider, that they seem unduly concerned at times at reputation management (although this is also a preoccupation of political parties) rather than dealing with matters in an entirely open and transparent way. There is a blurry line between the individual reputations of senior managers and politicians on one hand and the organisational reputation of the organisations they are either employed by or are elected to represent the views of the public at.

Some of the reports that went to the most meeting the day before yesterday, have been the subject of previous articles by me and FOI requests.

You can read my FOI request (25/8/13) for the report on ISUS here, which was refused on 23/9/13 and refused at internal review on 24/10/13. That external audit report can be read as part of the committee’s papers (see agenda item 2 and the links from this page on Wirral Council’s website if you wish to do.

Had the responses to those FOI requests been forthcoming and Wirral Council provided the information within weeks a lot more would have been in the public domain before the July and October meetings in 2014 of the Audit and Risk Management Committee meetings. Wirral Council instead chose to rely on exemptions to suppress the information and knew I was unlikely to appeal to ICO, as if I had I’d probably still be waiting for a decision!

Excessive secrecy just makes the public and press suspect that there’s a deliberate cover up or Wirral Council has done something it’s ashamed or embarrassed about. Usually the answer is a little more complicated than a conspiracy.

The Merseyside police investigation (which resulted in no charges) was used as an excuse by Wirral Council to deny FOI requests, not just about the one Grant Thornton recommended was referred to the police, but information in general about the other aspects too.

Wirral Council was recommended by the forensic arm of its external auditors to refer one very minor matter to the police. Wirral Council did and this was then used this as an excuse to delay and prevent further scrutiny. The police response (and I summarise) was that based on what they were told that there was insufficient evidence to charge somebody (or somebodies) with a crime. Remember criminal charges require basically two elements, proof that the alleged crime occurred and also generally for most criminal matters mens rea (proof of a “guilty mind” too). The latter is often harder to prove than the former, which is why defendants sometimes plead not guilty in order to get a jury trial! As Wirral Council actually carries out criminal prosecutions through the Wirral Magistrates Courts, I’m sure someone there who is actually aware of these matters!

This article is getting rather long and at the two thousand word mark I am somewhat digressing into related matters, although obviously it is not as long as the papers for that meeting which come in at the length of a medium-sized novel!

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