Category: Licensing

Licensing Act 2003 Committee (Wirral Council) 23/5/2012 Part 1

The agenda and reports for this meeting can be found by following the link. Present Cllr Harry Smith Cllr Don McCubbin Cllr Denise Roberts Cllr Bill Davies (Chair) Cllr Steve Niblock Cllr Andrew Hodson Cllr George Davies Cllr Pat Williams Other councillors The Chair, Cllr Bill Davies asked councillors present to introduce themselves. The following … Continue reading “Licensing Act 2003 Committee (Wirral Council) 23/5/2012 Part 1”

The agenda and reports for this meeting can be found by following the link.

Present
Cllr Harry Smith
Cllr Don McCubbin
Cllr Denise Roberts
Cllr Bill Davies (Chair)
Cllr Steve Niblock
Cllr Andrew Hodson
Cllr George Davies
Cllr Pat Williams
Other councillors

The Chair, Cllr Bill Davies asked councillors present to introduce themselves. The following councillors did, Cllr Andrew Hodson, Cllr Don McCubbin, Cllr Mike Hornby, Cllr Harry Smith, Cllr Robert Gregson, Cllr ??? (Labour), Cllr Steve Niblock, Cllr Dave Mitchell, Cllr George Davies and Cllr Pat Williams.

The officers introduced themselves as Ken Abraham, Anne Beauchamp and Margaret O’Donnell.

The Chair asked for declarations of interest. No declarations of interest were made.

The minutes of the meeting held on the 25th May 2011 were agreed.

Cllr Denise Roberts proposed, seconded by another Labour councillor that Cllr Steve Niblock be Vice-Chair. There were no other nominations so Cllr Niblock became Vice-Chair.

Apologies were given for Cllr John Salter who couldn’t make it due to a prior engagement.

The Chair asked if a half hour presentation was ok? He thanked people for the hard work at last year’s hearings, some of which had lasted over three hours. He said he was keen that the two new members of the committee take part in training, which he hoped all the committee would take part because of changes to the legislation.

Margaret O’Donnell had a Powerpoint presentation to show the Committee. She didn’t know how to start a slide show in Powerpoint, received some prompting from the Vice-Chair and somebody else assisted her and was then able to progress to the next slide. Cllr Harry Smith said that the Vice-Chair was showing off.

She went into detail about representations, changes happening as a result of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 and how representations by ward councillors had changed. She detailed what the four licensing objectives are and how representations had to be linked to one or more of these. Margaret O’Donnell also referred to the statutory guidance and Wirral Council’s licensing policy.

The Chair asked if they all had a copy? Margaret offered to put one in their pigeon holes. Cllr Williams asked if it had changed. Margaret O’Donnell answered yes. She said previously they had to review the Council’s policy every three years, now it was five, she would review it and bring a draft to the committee for consultation. Once it had been consulted on, it required the approval of the full Council, so she would start reviewing and redrafting it.

A councillor asked when? She said she was not certain as they did not meet until November and there were further legislative changes in October, plus things could change before then.

Licensing Act 2003 Subcommittee Wirral Council 22/2/2012 Part 2 North Star, 294 Laird Street, Birkenhead, CH41 8ER

The meeting resumed after lunch with the same panel (Cllr Bob Wilkins (Chair), Cllr Eddie Boult and Cllr Steve Niblock) and officers as before, with three members of the public/press, a solicitor and two people involved with the licence. The report on this agenda item can be found here.

Cllr Bob Wilkins welcomed people to the hearing, introduced himself and the panel and asked officers, the police and others to introduce themselves. Four officers present earlier for part one of the meeting introduced themselves. The two police officers stayed the same. Three others introduced themselves including Chris Johnson (solicitor), ????? ????? and another ????? ?????.

The Chair, Cllr Wilkins asked if they could confirm the documentation sent out had been received?

Margaret O’Donnell said they had additional documentation circulated to councillors and to the other parties, which was additional documentation.

The Sergeant said the late documentation was in relation to an arrest yesterday. There was an NG15 form regarding a ??????? ??? and a copy of the interview.

Cllr Niblock confirmed he had it. Cllr Bob Wilkins said if there was any additional documentation to present or whether they wished to call extra witnesses?

The Police said they would not at this moment in time.

Cllr Wilkins asked the police to present their case, then there would be the opportunity to ask questions. The representative of the licence holders would get their chance to put across their case, followed by questions. They would proceed and hear views, and make their decision in accordance with the statement of Licensing Policy and statutory guidance and the four licensing objectives which were preventing crime and disorder, public safety, the prevention of public nuisance and the protection of children from harm.

Margaret O’Donnell outlined details of the conditions on the licence, which was for sale of alcohol, recorded music and dancing seven days a week 11am to 11pm with some non-standard times involving Good Friday and Christmas Day regarding the sale of alcohol.

She said they may take one or more of the following steps which included modifying the conditions, removing the Designated Premises Supervisor, suspending the licence for a period of up to three months, revoking the licence and taking no action.

Cllr Steve Niblock asked the police about the anonymous letter and why it wasn’t seen as vexatious as it was anonymous?

The police sergeant explained that the anonymous letter had arrived in January 2012, this was after the event and the premises had been raided. He said the letter ??????? and came in after the event. He said he accepted it was anonymous and received after the ?????. He said it was unidentified.

The Chair Cllr Bob Wilkins asked Sergeant Jenkins of the Police to speak first.

Sgt Jenkins thanked members of the panel. He said the Premises Licence Holder for these premises is one John Joseph Diable, but recently one of his business partners, Mr Wharton had made an application to be the Premises Licence Holder of these premises. The Designated Premises Supervisor was Christopher Ridgeway Jones and he’s here today.

The Chair, Cllr Bob Wilkins asked if John Joseph was the Designated Premises Supervisor or Christopher Ridgeway Jones?

Ken Abraham, legal adviser to the panel said to clarify that it was Mr. Wilson who was here and had applied to be Premises Licence Holder, not Mr. Wharton. He asked Sergeant Jenkins to clarify what he’d said.

Sergeant Jenkins apologised for referring to Mr. Wilson as Mr. Wharton. “You’re Mr. Wharton?”. He apologised again. He said Chris Ridgeway Jones, owned it with his wife Mary. On the evening of the ??rd ?????, officers of the Wirral Licensing Unit and Tactical Team, attended the North Star public house in Birkenhead in an ongoing licensing operation.

He continued by stating that it was an ongoing licensing operation, taking place on that evening and several licensed premises were scheduled to be visited. He said a police ??? unit and a ????? ??? also accompanied the officers.

On entering the premises, officers noticed that it was extremely ????, he spoke with the ??? for ???. He formed the opinion that ??? appeared ???? and when asked about ???, he looked ????. He was asked to ???? the location of the ??? and stated it was in the ????. Officers entered the ???? where they found the ??? between ???? ???? which was ???? in ????. There was no ??? for it, on the ??? and the officers believed that the ???? had been used to ????. “I did send some photographs down, but I do appreciate they are of poor quality. I’ve had a problem with my printer today, in order to print some colour photographs off. But that appears is the situation that we found.”

He handed out the photos.

Margaret asked if ????? had seen these?

????? answered ???.

Sgt Jenkins continued, “When ????? was ????? these, he stated that he ????? ????? the ???? of ??? ???? and that he ???? ???? for ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????. He was informed at that the time that he was to be arrested on suspicion of the theft of gas and that’s what subsequently happened.”

He said “As you can see there are no ????? or ???? ??? ??? ??? there and it is ???? ?? ??? ??? ???. The ???? from ??? ??? attended. He said that the ???? was ????? and that ??? ??? ??? ??? was both ???? and that no ???? or ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? to the ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????. ”

“The public house was then closed due to ???? ????. The ???? was ???? and the ??? ???? to the ???? was ????. The owner of the premises, ???? ???? then arrived at the premises, he wanted to ????. When ???? about the ???? ????, he stated he’d been ????? called ??? ??? and that the former ???, one ???? ??? and a former ???. ???? ???? was then arrested on suspicion of the ??? and he was then conveyed to the Custody Suite in Birkenhead. ”

“From what we understand, ???? was a former ???? ??? of ??? ???. We believe that the ???? of ???? had ????. ???? had ???? ???? ???? ???? and ???? ???? ??? to ??? ???? on the ???? ???. Bearing in mind we’re now on the **rd of *******.”

“You must also give note that on the 3rd October 2011 Constable Rita Jones of the Police Licensing Unit had served a section 19 closure order on the premises, which had been trading since the 27th September 2011 and that the then ???? that ?????, that person was ???? ???. A ??? ???? pertaining to the ???? ?? ? ???? had been ???? to the ???? ???. ”

“The closure order was rescinded on the 4th October 2011, once the ???? ???? had ???? ????. Once the issues of ??? had been addressed, the police ??? ???, had ???? in the ?????? that a ???, that a ???? that was ???? on the premises was ???? ??? ?? ???? ????. This ??? was duly arrested for being in possession of a controlled drug, namely ?????? and ??? too was arrested and charged with the offence. ”

“On the 3rd December 2011, a **** was made that **** were being **** on the premises. On the 22/2/2011 a ****** was **** in the *** **** the **** ****. Seven people were arrested in connection with this *****, including *** ***. No **** evidence was **** which could positively **** any of the *** people arrested. ”

“**** **** the premises and **** it out to an associate **** ****. The **** *** *** *** ***, which was **** was estimated to be £***** to £*****. He ***** police with a ***** on **** and he ***** his right to ***** when ****. The Crown Prosecution Service said the ***** were *****, but that **** evidence to bring a prosecution was not available. The police reference number is what is stated there. ”

Sgt Jenkins said he would take the Crown Prosecution Service file as ****, as the panel could peruse it without him needing to refer to it. He said he could quote from it if you wish me to. It should be. It’s an MG3.

Ken Abraham asked about the page number?

Cllr Bob Wilkins said page 26, Cllr Steve Niblock confirmed it was page 26 in the recent one.

The police continued that on the 19/11/2010 there had been a arrest for an assault which was on police records. There had been also in 2010 two women fighting in street, who were both arrested on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly.

There was the alleged issue of ***** ****, which in his view compromised the licensing objective of preventing crime and disorder and the safety of public. The detained person had been released on bail pending further enquiries and he confirmed that a criminal investigation was ongoing and he appreciated it was not within the remit of the panel to prejudge it. The persons responsible in his view could not have **** to ***** **** as it was ****. He referred to **** and ****. The police had ***** the premises for a ****.

A PACE ***** of the **** which was authorised as a result of the *** which resulted in four males being arrested. He draw the panel’s attention to the **** of *** ***. On the night we had ***** make **** ***. **** **** is a **** **** officer. He confirms that **** *** **** the **** **** with a *** *** of **** on the */*/20**. No **** has been **** since ****. ****.

Over the course of the past few days **** *** has actually been arrested. He has **** **** *** *** ***. If you come to the MG15, *** *** was interviewed at **** hours and it took him *** minutes by Constable *** at the **** **** ***. *** was cautioned and the caution was explained. *** was asked ****. **** ****.

***. The **** had gone out in error. To explain ***. ***. That **** should be ***** with. We*** clear that **** *** and the **** is that ****. There *** no doubt ****. The premises is owned by *** ****, showing that he is the leaseholder. The land belongs to the Council. He leases it from the Council.

Sgt Jenkins said he believed these premises were involved in alleged criminal activity. A number of people have been arrested. Although six people were arrested, none of these people were charged. He referred to the alleged criminal offence currently under investigation.

He said the police can’t go into pubs on a regular basis, as there are 1,300 licensed premises on the Wirral and they only have a small team. He said premises were within the control of the Premises Licence Holder, whoever they appointed as Designated Premises Supervisor. He advocated revoking the licence, as he felt conditions wouldn’t be effective. He asked the panel to seriously consider revocation.

???? and **** = information removed because it’s an active criminal investigation.

For more information on this story you can read Liam Murphy’s version in the Liverpool Echo

Licensing Act 2003 Subcommittee Wirral Council 22/2/2012 Part 1 Appointment of Chair, Lifestyle 82-84 Town Meadow Lane, Moreton, CH46 7TB

Panel:

Cllr Bob Wilkins (Chair)
Cllr Eddie Boult
Cllr Steve Niblock

The papers for this meeting can be found here.

Agenda Item 1: Appointment of Chair

Cllr Bob Wilkins said he was the Chair of the panel and that on either side of him was a councillor, who were also on the panel of three.

He asked councillors, committee officers, the police and those present to introduce themselves (slowly).

The following people gave their names:-

Anne Beauchamp (Committee Clerk)
Ken Abraham (Legal adviser)
Margaret O’Donnell (Licensing)
Richard Leyland (Licensing Team Leader)
Unknown
Sergeant ??? (Merseyside Police)
Constable Paula ???? (Merseyside Police)
Unknown (solicitor?)
Unknown male
Unknown male

Agenda item 3: Lifestyle, 82-84 Town Meadow Lane, Moreton, CH46 7TB

The Chair, Cllr Bob Wilkins asked if the appropriate notices and information had been sent out? Margaret O’Donnell said there had been additional paperwork on Monday and yesterday as well. Those documents would be referenced today. She said there were no additional further details for consideration.

Cllr Bob Wilkins asked if there would be any additional witnesses. He asked the applicant if they had provided all the document they wishes the panel to see?

The police answered no (to both questions).

Cllr Bob Wilkins explained the procedure he would be following. He said he would give the applicant time to present his case, questions coud be asked. Once that was over those from the licenced premises would have a chance to put their case, and an opportunity given to ask questions of them.

He said they would also be considering advice issued under Section 182 of the Licensing Act 2003 and the four licensing objectives which were:-

prevention of crime and disorder,
public safety,
the prevention of public nuisance and
the protection of children from harm.

Licensing Act 2003 Sub-Committee 22/11/2011 (Four Seasons, 265-267 Seabank Road, Wallasey)

The Licensing Committee due to take place today to review the Four Seasons premises licence in New Brighton ward did not take place as planned.

The following councillors did however turn up:-

Cllr Denise Roberts
Cllr John Salter
Cllr Mike Hornby

Officers:
David Abraham (Legal adviser)
Margaret Calvert (Licensing Team Leader)
Committee Clerk: Unknown

Others:
A Merseyside Police officer
Solicitor for those holding the premises licence at the Four Seasons which was Andrew Church-Taylor of Farleys Solicitors LLP
People holding the premises licence for the Four Seasons
A number of other people (at least two) plus myself and another member of the public.

However the meeting was not held, for possibly multiple reasons. There was a combination of the reasons outlined here about a mistake in the agenda in my letter here which related to the desire of Merseyside Police and Wirral Council to hold the committee in private without the public present and the complexity of the case meaning that starting at 2pm, you can’t do such a complex case justice. Things have to be done at such meetings according to the
Licensing Act 2003 (Hearings) Regulations 2005 No.44 which were amended by the Licensing Act 2003 (Hearings) (Amendment) Regulations 2005 No.78.

There was also talk in the lobby of a councillor being late because he arrives by public transport, but I’m not sure which councillor Margaret Calvert was referring to. As councillors are drawn from a panel of fifteen councillors (three of which were there) it doesn’t narrow it down much, although it may have been the Chair of the previous meeting.

The decision to hold it in private had been made at a previous meeting whose minutes for this meeting have (not at the time of writing on the 22nd November) been published and the committee clerk who wrote the draft minutes wasn’t present. The main error was writing “Licensing Act 2003” instead of “The Licensing Act 2003 (Hearings) Regulations 2005”, which in itself was a minor error, but as it had been made at a previous meeting on the 21st October complicates things further.

As the public representations made during Licensing Act 2003 subcommittee meetings can affect the decision made, excluding the public based on a law that was the wrong one could open the decision up to appeal in the Magistrate’s Court if the public were excluded unlawfully.

If it was Wirral Council’s error and they lost they’d have to pay the legal costs of the other party which could end up being considerable. There is some case-law on the subject of licensing appeals, the police, the Magistrates Court (which my father used to work for) and the High Courts of Justice but it’s too late to go into here and this blog post is too long already. It’s a very complex area of law.

My Dad commented that he felt things were dealt better when the Magistrate’s Court used to deal with licensing issues before it got switched to the local authority (Wirral Council). His view was that a court knows the law better than a local authority does as they have experienced staff that deal with providing legal advice to magistrates (as he used to). Wirral Council does have legally qualified staff to deal with legal matters, such as David Abraham and at least seventeen others (plus external legal advisors on an ad hoc basis).

The problem is the agendas aren’t put together by lawyers, they’re put together by committee clerks who don’t need to have a legal qualification and have to rely on the advice given to them by the legal department about what is legal.

Wirral Council – Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee – Part 2 – 25/5/2011

An officer explained to the new members of the committee that it relates to licences outside the Licensing Act. The police also had a say over licence policy or conditions. This committee had to decide applicable licences that fell outside the delegated authority to officer. The Licensing Panel met monthly and mainly dealt with tax drivers who had incurred convictions.

The Chair said its next meeting was on Friday morning. Cllr Niblock said it had worked well having it on the second Friday of the month. The Chair agreed and said he was happy.

An officer said they had got out of sync because of a gap caused by the elections, the next would be Friday 10th June.

Cllr Pat Glasman said it had been a pleasure to work on the committee in the last year.

An officer introduced an item of any other business and referred to the survey regarding the independent consultation regarding the supply of taxis. Scientists have proposed to ban the pharmacies for selling from https://summitps.org/antibiotics-online/ antibiotics without prescription. They argue that these drugs affect human genetic apparatus and provoke certain mutations. She was not sure when people had been contacted and they next met in September. Did they want a special meeting? The Chair agreed providing it had been looked at and was ready.

The officer said that may not happen as they had sent out the questionnaires but were towards the end of the process. The questionnaires being with the drivers was the last stage. It was scheduled to complete in June and they would then need four weeks advance notice to do a report.

Cllr Lewis asked to be contacted regarding the timetable.

Cllr Glasman asked what time the meeting was on Friday and was told it was at 9.45am. She was also told there would be a couple of vehicles to look at. The meeting then ended.