Incredible: Why did ICO find Wirral Council twice broke the law by taking too long to reply to 2 requests?
Incredible: Why did ICO find Wirral Council twice broke the law by taking too long to reply to 2 requests?
ICO Information Commissioner’s Office logo
A bit like the experience I had recently of waiting ages for a bus in Liverpool recently, only for four buses back to back to turn up, the Information Commissioner’s Office have in the last fortnight issued two decision notices involving FOI requests to Wirral Council.
The decision notice states “As the information was disclosed outside the 20 working day timescale the Commissioner has concluded that the Council breached the requirements of regulation 5(2). ”
I made the request on the 26th January 2015. Wirral Council ignored my request, so on the 24th February 2015 I requested an internal review. Wirral Council responded to the internal review on the 23rd March 2015 stating it had the information but was withholding it based on a regulation 12(5)(e) exemption.
“(5) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(a), a public authority may refuse to disclose information to the extent that its disclosure would adversely affect
(e) the confidentiality of commercial or industrial information where such confidentiality is provided by law to protect a legitimate economic interest;”
“Following your complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office, the Council has decided to reverse its position, having previously relied on the exception contained in Regulation 12 (5) (e) of the Environmental Information Regulations 2004. I do not consider that releasing the information would now adversely affect the legitimate economic interest of a third party. The address of the property, which you have requested is 13 Thorneycroft Street, Birkenhead. I have copied this response to the Information Commissioner’s Office.”
As mentioned in my opening sentence, I’m also aware of a decision notice involving a Freedom of Information request that’s been issued recently that hasn’t yet been published on ICO’s website.
“2. The Commissioner’s decision is that the Council has breached section 10(1) of FOIA by failing to respond to the request.
3. The Commissioner requires the public authority to take the following steps to ensure compliance with the legislation.
The Council should inform the complainant whether the requested information is held. If the information is held it should provide it to the complainant or else issue a refusal notice in accordance with section 17 of FOIA.
4. The public authority must take these steps within 35 calendar days of the date of this Decision Notice. Failure to comply may result in the Commissioner making written certification of this fact to the High Court (or the Court of Session in Scotland) pursuant to section 54 of the Act and may be dealt with as a contempt of court.”
and
“9. On receipt of the complaint the Commissioner contacted the Council to remind it of its duty to respond to requests for information within 20 working days and to ask that it respond to the complainant. Neither the complainant nor the Commissioner received a response.”
as well as
“11. The complainant made his request for information to the Council on 6 May 2014 but has failed to receive a response. The Council has clearly exceeded the 20 working day limit very significantly and therefore the Commissioner has found that the Council breached section 10(1) in its handling of the request.”
Certainly the common theme running through the two decision notices is Wirral Council exceeding the time limits in the legislation on responding to requests.
If you click on any of the buttons below, you’ll be doing me a favour by sharing this article with other people.
Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “inappropriate development” & “potential for significant harm”
Wirral Council planning on green belt fire station “inappropriate development” & “potential for significant harm”
Dan Stephens (Chief Fire Officer) answers questions at a public consultation meeting in Saughall Massie to discuss proposals for a new fire station (20th April 2015)
One of the long running sagas that this blog has reported on has been the future of Upton and West Kirby fire stations. Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service have had two twelve week consultations on this in the last year. The first consultation was on the controversial Greasby library/community centre site in the heart of Greasby village. However in a dramatic U-turn following opposition Wirral Council who owned the site in question withdrew it from consideration part way through the consultation.
The second consultation, which finished on the 18th May and provoked similar levels of opposition to that shown in Greasby but for different reasons also involved a piece of land in Wirral Council’s ownership in Saughall Massie. A decision by Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority following the second consultation is expected towards the end of June.
The emails make for interesting reading. As there are so many emails in three bundles of correspondence I may split this into different blog posts with half of the first bundle of emails below.
I haven’t included copies of the maps that were provided, however if you wish to view them, they’re on the Whatdotheyknow website. I haven’t corrected any typographical errors in the emails below.
Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran Sent:25 September 2013 18:31 To: NyreeCollinson@Merseyfire.gov.uk CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; ColinSchofield@merseyfire.gov.uk Subject: Request for sites
Nyree, Please can you forward this to David Ball/David Armstrong at the Wirral. Thanks.
Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-
A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding. Additional documents
As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-
a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area
The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.
Many thanks
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
Timmins, Kieran From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 04 November 2013 13:39 To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’ CC: Schofield, Colin Subject: FW: Request for sites
Hi Gents
Have you had a chance to consider what options might be available.
Regards
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
From: Collinson, Nyree Sent: 04 November 2013 12:52 To: Timmins, Kieran Subject: FW: Request for sites
Kieran, is this the email you’re looking for?
Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108
From: Collinson, Nyree Sent: 26 September 2013 09:36 To: David Ball – Regeneration Dept., Wirral Borough Council (davidball@wirral.gov.uk);’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’ Subject: FW: Request for sites
Please see below from Kieran Timmins
Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108
From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 25 September 2013 18:31 To: Collinson, Nyree CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; Schofield, Colin Subject: Request for sites
Dear David/David
Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-
A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding. Additional documents
As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-
a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area
The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.
Many thanks
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
Timmins, Kieran From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 15 November 2013 13:48 To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’ CC: Schofield, Colin Subject: RE: Request for sites
Hi Gents
Have you had a chance to consider this yet?
Many thanks
Kieran
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 04 November 2013 13:39 To:‘davidball@wirral.gov.uk’;’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’ CC: Schofield, Colin Subject: FW: Request for sites
Hi Gents
Have you had a chance to consider what options might be available.
Regards
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
From: Collinson, Nyree Sent: 04 November 2013 12:52 To: Timmins, Kieran Subject: FW: Request for sites
Kieran, is this the email you’re looking for?
Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108
From: Collinson, Nyree Sent: 26 September 2013 09:36 To: David Ball – Regeneration Dept., Wirral Borough Council (davidball@wirral.gov.uk);’davidarmstrong@wirral.gov.uk’ Subject: FW: Request for sites
Please see below from Kieran Timmins
Nyree Collinson
PA to Deputy Chief Exec
Tel. 0151 296 4108
From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 25 September 2013 18:31 To: Collinson, Nyree CC: Henshaw, Janet (Legal); Woods, Stewart; Schofield, Colin Subject: Request for sites
Dear David/David
Thank you for a very useful meeting. As we discussed the authority has approved the attached report:-
A Strategic Overview of Estates – Identification of Key Priorities PDF 38Kb
To consider Report CFO/12/13 of the Deputy Chief Executive, concerning a review of the property portfolio of the Authority and recommendations for savings in light of the forecast significant reductions in funding. Additional documents
As I highlighted, we are currently at the exploratory stage of considerations and any firm decision about the future distribution of fire stations would require full authority approval. In order to assist me in taking back options for the Fire authority to consider Please can you:-
a) a suggest potential sites for a fire station in the Greasby area of the Wirral
b) Please can you suggest potential sites in the clatterbridge/bebington area
The approx. area for a stand alone fire station with community facilities is about 1 acre. At Prescot (which is likely to be a join police/fire ambulance station) we had identified a 2.4 acre site. Sites require good arterial road access for emergency response.
Many thanks
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
Timmins, Kieran
From: Ball, David S. Sent: 15 November 2013 13:50 To: Timmins, Kieran Subject: Out of Office Autoreply: Request for sites
Thank you for your e-mail.
I am out of the office on Friday afternoon in a series of meetings. I will be accessing e-mails from time to time but if you need anything urgently then please contact Annie Hasprey or Melanie Sloan on 0151 691 8395 and they will be able to help you.
Regards,
David
David Ball
Head of Regeneration and Planning,
Wirral Council
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com
Timmins, Kieran From: Halpin, Colleen S. on behalf of Armstrong, David Sent: 11 December 2013 14:55 To: Murphy(M), Paul; Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin CC: Royle, Jeanette E. Subject: Request for Sites
Dear Colin, Paul and Kieran
Thank you for your emails and messages regarding a potential site in Greasby for a new fire station. I apologise for not replying sooner. I am afraid a new phone and a series of hospital appointments are slowing me down!
In order to discuss the Greasby site further, can you please contact Tony Simpson on tonysimpson@wirral.gov.uk, tell 666 3892, who will share with you the relevant plans and land ownership issues.
Regards
David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive
Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com
Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 12 December 2013 09:58 To: ‘Armstrong, David’ Cc: Royle, Jeanette E.; Schofield, Colin Subject: RE: Request for Sites
Thanks David, much appreciated. Hope you are ok?
Not sure if Tony can pick this up but it strikes me as making sense if (presuming a Wirral owned site is identified in Greasby) that a land swap for the youth zone in Birkenhead might be a sensible approach for tidying up ownership etc…….. what do you think?
Take care
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
From: Halpin, Colleen S. on behalf of Armstrong, David Sent: 11 December 2013 14:55 To: Murphy(M), Paul; Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin CC: Royle, Jeanette E. Subject: Request for Sites
Dear Colin, Paul and Kieran
Thank you for your emails and messages regarding a potential site in Greasby for a new fire station. I apologise for not replying sooner. I am afraid a new phone and a series of hospital appointments are slowing me down!
In order to discuss the Greasby site further, can you please contact Tony Simpson on tonysimpson@wirral.gov.uk, tell 666 3892, who will share with you the relevant plans and land ownership issues.
Regards
David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive
Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk
www.wirral.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com
Timmins, Kieran From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06 To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Hi David
Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!
In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..
The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located
Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything
All the best
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .
Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.
Steps have been taken to ensure this email and attachments are free from virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.clearswift.com
From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34 To: Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Thanks for this.
A couple of initial responses.
– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.
– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.
– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.
– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.
– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.
Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!
Regards
David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive
Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk www.wirral.gov.uk
From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:] Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16 To: Simpson, Tony Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC Importance: High
Hello Tony,
As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:
WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :
1. With community centre
2. With community centre & Library
3. Without community centre and Library
You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.
I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.
Regards
Anu
Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .
Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.
Kieran, Timmins
From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34 To: Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Thanks for this.
A couple of initial responses.
– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.
– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.
– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.
– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.
– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.
Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!
Regards
David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive
Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk www.wirral.gov.uk
From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:] Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16 To: Simpson, Tony Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC Importance: High
Hello Tony,
As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:
WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :
1. With community centre
2. With community centre & Library
3. Without community centre and Library
You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.
I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.
Regards
Anu
Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.clearswift.com
Timmins, Kieran
From: Simpson, Tony Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08 To:Timmins, Kieran Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Hi Kieran
Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-
Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL
Regards
Tony
Timmins, Kieran From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06 To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Hi David
Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!
In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..
The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located
Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything
All the best
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34 To: Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Thanks for this.
A couple of initial responses.
– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.
– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.
– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.
– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.
– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.
Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!
Regards
David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive
Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk www.wirral.gov.uk
From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:] Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16 To: Simpson, Tony Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC Importance: High
Hello Tony,
As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:
WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :
1. With community centre
2. With community centre & Library
3. Without community centre and Library
You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.
I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.
Regards
Anu
Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk
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Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.
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Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 25 March 2014 17:10 To: ‘Simpson, Tony’ Cc: Subramanayam, Anatha; Schofield, Colin; Woods, Stewart Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Thanks for prompt research Tony….. although just looking at the listing makes me think this could be complicated!!
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
From: Simpson, Tony Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08 To:Timmins, Kieran Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Hi Kieran
Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-
Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL
Regards
Tony
Timmins, Kieran From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06 To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Hi David
Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!
In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..
The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located
Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything
All the best
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34 To: Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Thanks for this.
A couple of initial responses.
– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.
– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.
– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.
– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.
– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.
Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!
Regards
David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive
Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk www.wirral.gov.uk
From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:] Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16 To: Simpson, Tony Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC Importance: High
Hello Tony,
As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:
WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :
1. With community centre
2. With community centre & Library
3. Without community centre and Library
You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.
I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.
Regards
Anu
Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .
Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.
Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/
Timmins, Kieran
From: Simpson, Tony Sent: 25 March 2014 17:14 To: Timmins, Kieran Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Nothing’s ever easy these days!
Timmins, Kieran
From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 25 March 2014 17:10 To: ‘Simpson, Tony’ Cc: Subramanayam, Anatha; Schofield, Colin; Woods, Stewart Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Thanks for prompt research Tony….. although just looking at the listing makes me think this could be complicated!!
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
kierantimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk
www.merseyfire.gov.uk
From: Simpson, Tony Sent: 25 March 2014 17:08 To:Timmins, Kieran Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Hi Kieran
Proprietor of Upton Cricket Club, Old Greasby Road, Wirral, CH49 6LT :-
Rose Chaplet Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. No.05678129), and Reveille Nominees Ltd., (Co. Regn. 05678115), c/o Leverhulme Estates, Estate Office, Thornton Hough, Wirral CH63 1JD and c/o Brabners LLP (Ref. JPW/AFR/LEO), Horton House, Exchange Flags, Liverpool L2 3YL
Regards
Tony
Timmins, Kieran From: Timmins, Kieran Sent: 21 January 2014 11:06 To: ‘Armstrong, David’;Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Hi David
Thanks for the note….. to be very clear on the first point we expressly asked you to identify potential options. You certainly did not propose a site!
In relation to the other points I hope the comments below might help…..
The footprint we discussed was based upon the PFI stations we have built recently….. in general these are two bay with extensive community facilities. However in general most of the fire stations only house one appliance despite having two bays although we have been quite successful with the ambulance service in sharing sites.I can’t envisage us building an old style fire station without community facilities and would expect to have two bays as well to allow operational flexibility.
All three blue lights services have come under significant pressure to work more closely from government and I think there is a clear public expectation that in these challenging times for public services we would consider the possibility on any new build. In Merseyside we work very successfully with both NWAS and the Police and have several successful operations. In broad terms I would expect the presence of colleague services to be relatively small and not to add significantly to the building footprint (if it does suit their business plans). The PFI stations were designed prior to ambulance requests to move in but we have accommodated them without extension. There are lots of benefits for the local community around joint working by having the services co-located
Hope that is of use .Give me a buzz if you need to talk through anything
All the best
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
From: Halpin, Colleen S. [mailto:ColleenHalpin@wirral.gov.uk] On Behalf Of Armstrong, David Sent: 21 January 2014 09:34 To: Subramanayam, Anatha Cc: Timmins, Kieran; Schofield, Colin; Simpson, Tony Subject: RE: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC
Thanks for this.
A couple of initial responses.
– I think it is important to be clear that I responded to a request from MFRS for possible sites for a fire station on council owned land. We came up with two, of which this was one, the other was felt by MFRS to be too close to the current Upton fire station. This is very different to how the email could be read that “David Armstrong proposed” this site. Clearly MFRS has the option to look also at other suitable sites owned by others.
– Our discussions were around a single bay fire station and in that regard the site appeared to have potential, particularly having the front and rear access required by MFRS. The discussion extended to possible inclusion of the community facilities, in line with the very positive developments undertaken by MFRS in Wallasey and Birkenhead.
– I’d envisage that a marked up drawing would come back showing if and how a one bay fire station would fit on the site and possibly a second option of a one bay plus a community facility.
– To the best of my memory, I don’t recall any mention of possible use by police and ambulance “hence the reason for two acres”. I fully support the principle, both for operational and financial reasons but would ask the question – is that going to result in us trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot here.
– It would be useful to see the footprints of i) single bay fire station, ii) single bay fire station and community, iii) larger joint facility on the land in question.
Sorry if the above sounds negative – I just feel the need to be cautious!
Regards
David Armstrong
Head of Universal Services CYPD
and Assistant Chief Executive
Colleen Halpin
PA to Director of Children’s Services
Children and Young People’s Department
Wirral Council
Tel: 0151 666 4288
Fax: 0151 666 4338
E-mail: colleenhalpin@wirral.gov.uk www.wirral.gov.uk
From: Subramanayam, Anatha [mailto:] Sent: 20 January 2014 13:16 To: Simpson, Tony Cc: Schofield, Colin; Timmins, Kieran Subject: Greasby Land – MFRS/WBC Importance: High
Hello Tony,
As per our meeting on 8th January 2014 – I am emailing you MFRS understanding in confidence about the land in Greasby (attached )
Summarising the way forward as we discussed:
WBC & MFRS discussed the criteria for development of the Fire station in the land proposed by David Armstrong of WBC as potential option.
You have confirmed that WBC have granted a long-term (99 year lease ) to the local community trust occupying the community centre adjacent to the site. Can you please confirm the area of the site we discussed :
1. With community centre
2. With community centre & Library
3. Without community centre and Library
You stated the approval was granted for the development of supermarket in the red cat premises Can please confirm whether the proposed scheme for Tesco/Sainsbury has been approved adjacent to the site Library which can expand the options available for WBC & MFRS to consider development on proposed sensitive site. (see attached drawing for reference)
As we have discussed with you MFRS anticipate greater interest from associated partners – NWAS & Mersey Police for their respective occupational requirements which is the reason we need minimum of 2 acres of Land to avoid any design issues for a feasible development.
As we discussed – ideally MFRS & WBC can look forward on few options :
1. MFRS can ideally build a Fire station in the proposed land subject to area confirmation.
2. MFRS can develop a Fire station in the proposed land along with community facility while transferring the lease agreements from WBC to MFRS for the existing community centre subject to consultation with community centre and area confirmation.
3. MFRS can develop a Fire station along with a community facility & Library facility within the associated occupant Lands subject to an agreement with WBC for Land and lease arrangements.
4. MFRS & WBC can work together to formulate development template in line with any Tesco/Sainsbury proposals in the adjacent Red Cat premises along with Option 3 mentioned above which can be beneficial to all involved stakeholders and community in general.
I look forward to your thoughts on above and please do not hesitate to contact us for any information needed.
Regards
Anu
Anatha Subramanayam | Development Manager – Estates | Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service | Bridle Road, Bootle L30 4YD | Office: 0151 296 4314 Mob: 07801156545 Email: anathasubramanayam@merseyfire.gov.uk
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service, (MFRS) .
Incoming and outgoing emails may be monitored in line with current legislation.
Steps have been taken to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus. In keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free.
http://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/
Timmins, Kieran
From: Ball, David S. Sent: 29 April 2014 09:06 To: Timmins, Kieran Cc: Simpson, Tony; Armstrong, David Subject: RE: Greasby sites
Kieran,
I don’t but I have copied this to Tony and David who may know more about it.
David
DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council
From: Timmins, Kieran [mailto:KieranTimmins@merseyfire.gov.uk] Sent: 29 April 2014 08:54 To: Ball, David S. Subject: Greasby sites
Hi David
Do you know anything about land sited on Frankby road opposite St John the divine church? Is that a possible fire station site?
Cheers
Kieran
Kieran Timmins
Deputy Chief Executive
Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority
Fire Service HQ
Bridle Road
Bootle
L30 4YD
Tel: 0151 296 4202
Fax: 0151 296 4224
Timmins, Kieran
From: Ball, David S Sent: 29 April 2014 12:58 To: Timmins, Kieran Cc: Armstrong, David; Simpson, Tony Subject FW: Greasby sites
Kieran,
Here is the view on this site from my Forward Planning team. It seems that there would be some planning policy issues here but I can explore it further if you want me to.
David
DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council
From: Entwhistle, John C. Sent: 29 April 2014 12:56 To: Ball, David S. Subject: RE: Greasby sites
David – the land on the opposite site of Frankby road to St John the Divine is in the Green Belt so a fire station would be inappropriate development and very special circumstances would have to be demonstrated. However there is potential for significant harm to the Green Belt in this location because of its role in maintaining separation between Greasby and Frankby.
John Entwistle Principal Forward Planning Officer,
Forward Planning,
Regeneration and Environment,
Wirral Council,
Town Hall, Brighton Street
Wallasey, Merseyside
CH44 8ED
Telephone: 0151 691 8221
email: johnentwistle@wirral.gov.uk
Fax: 0151 691 8273
Visit our website www.wirral.gov.uk
Please save paper and print out only what is necessary.
From: Ball, David S. Sent: 29 April 2014 12:19 To: Entwhistle, John C. Subject: FW: Greasby sites Importance: High
John,
Do we know anything about this site?
Would a fire station be an acceptable use?
David
DAVID BALL
Head of Regeneration and Planning
Regeneration and Environment Department
Wirral Council
Cabinet agrees smoking ban “anywhere on any Council site” and Freedom of Entry recommendation for HMS Astute and TS Astute
Cabinet agrees smoking ban “anywhere on any Council site” and Freedom of Entry recommendation for HMS Astute and TS Astute
Councillor Adrian Jones explains why Freedom of Entry status should be conferred upon TS Astute and HMS Astute (4th June 2015)
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Wirral Council’s Cabinet met for the first time after the elections and unusually there were many members of the public. The item the public were there to hear was whether Wirral Council would be support the transfer of properties from Beechwood and Ballantyne Community Housing Association to Liverpool Housing Trust.
A petition of 250 residents of the Beechwood and Ballantyne estate opposed to the transfer of houses to Liverpool Housing Trust was given to the Councillor George Davies (Cabinet Member for Housing) half an hour before the meeting started. He said, “I should refer this back to Beechwood and Ballantyne Housing Association to reflect upon and that we defer any decision on this item this evening and bring it back to a future Cabinet, hopefully by the 29th of June.”
Cllr Ann McLachlan (ward councillor for the residents who signed the petition) added, “As late as yesterday and until mid-afternoon today I do know that negotiations and consultation were being undertaken with the community to allay and address fears that they had and my understanding was they had been largely addressed and that there was satisfaction regarding outstanding matters, so it has come as a shock to us to hear there is now this petition.
However Chair, if this further short period of consultation does seek to address those concerns, whatever they may be then I think it will be time well spent. Clearly I will want to address the report when it does come back to Cabinet in three weeks time.”
Cllr Phil Davies explained that a decision would be deferred to “give us more opportunity to try and get to the bottom of the issues that the signatories are concerned about and obviously with a view to try to come to some agreement in time hopefully for the next Cabinet meeting”.
Cabinet agreed to defer a decision to the 29th June (its next meeting).
Agreement was given by Cabinet to demolish the buildings of the former Foxfield School site in Douglas Drive, Moreton. Foxfield School has moved from Douglas Drive to a new site in Woodchurch that opened in March. Wirral Council hope to sell off the former site for Foxfield in Moreton and are applying for government permission to do so.
Cabinet agreed a recommendation to confer Freedom of Entry status on the Wallasey Sea Cadets (TS Astute) and HMS Astute (a nuclear powered submarine). A decision on Cabinet’s recommendation will be made at a future special meeting of Council.
Making it clear that this was “not a proposal to sell of the municipal golf courses” Wirral Council’s Cabinet agreed to look for a “delivery partner” for its golf courses (except Hoylake). Wirral Council subsidises its golf courses by £330,000 a year and Cabinet hopes that in future the subsidy won’t be needed. A report will come back to a future Cabinet before any further decision is made.
A policy on smoking that bans smoking (including e-cigarettes) “anywhere on any Council site by all staff, contractors, visitors and the public” was agreed. The new policy extends the ban on smoking to outside as well as inside Council buildings.
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What questions did the public ask Jane Kennedy about antisocial behaviour in Birkenhead?
What questions did the public ask Jane Kennedy about antisocial behaviour in Birkenhead?
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Jane Kennedy (Police and Crime Commissioner for Merseyside) answering questions from the public at a meeting of the Birkenhead Constituency Committee (Thursday 28th May 2015)
Jane Kennedy (Police and Crime Commissioner for Merseyside) answered questions from the public about antisocial behaviour in Birkenhead at a meeting of the Birkenhead Constituency Committee held in Birkenhead Town Hall last Thursday evening.
First to ask a question was Paul Haywood. He had seen police officers patrolling Birkenhead in pairs or in pairs of police community support officers but he asked why the two weren’t mixed together? He also asked what police specials were.
Jane Kennedy replied, "In years past, when PCSOs [police community support officers] were introduced, we had more of them and we had more officers in the workforce there would have been more resilience to be able to pair officers with PCSOs. The bare truth is that now that is no longer the case."
Mr Haywood added that pairing PSCOs with police officers would give the PSCOs the experience they need to become police specials.
The Police and Crime Commissioner for Merseyside answered, "First of all that route into the police is primarily the most successful route for candidates who are joining the force, although we just learned today a period of no recruitment as officers, we are still recruiting PCSOs and people who have had experience as specials, special constables or as PCSOs are usually most successful when it comes to applying to be a full constable.
So we’ve seen quite significant movement through into the force from PCSOs, so you’re right in the sense that having that experience helps, but what you have to hold in mind is that they are doing different jobs. Leaving aside the specials for the moment, police officers even working together in a neighbourhood team are performing slightly different roles to the PCSOs, whose primary focus is engagement and listening and communicating and gathering information. Arresting and responding to reports of crime is more well, they all do it but primarily that’s the job of these sworn officers.
I’m going to ask the Inspector if she would mind saying what the force policy is in terms of patrolling. I don’t think there’s a bar on them patrolling together, it’s just a matter of how they are together on a shift."
Inspector Georgina Minnery said, "The question did come to us and we provided a response. Effectively as the Neighbourhood Inspector I have no concerns with patrolling police officers with PCSOs, but as the Commissioner said they do perform different roles.
The PCSOs primarily are a visible role engaging with the community, listening to the community being out on foot whereas we have less police officers as I’m sure you’re aware and those police officers have to respond to incidents. Primarily they do tend to be in police cars, that’s not something I want for PCSOs and for my colleagues. PCSOs don’t go in vehicles as a rule, there are exceptions to that.
So PCSOs parade, sorry patrol on their own in singles or in pairs after a certain time. We tend to patrol in pairs after 6 o’clock in the evening and the police officers as I say they’re responding to incidents as a rule. The PCSOs are out there gathering intelligence and engaging with the community.
I don’t have a problem with them patrolling together if we had those resources available."
Answering the question about specials, Jane Kennedy answered, "It’s only just to say you’ve probably got a definition of what one is in the papers, primarily they are volunteers who come in but are fully trained and equipped to work as a fully sworn constable. So they do have powers of arrest, but they are volunteers, they are receiving expenses only for their work that they do, that’s right and you suggested PSCOs aren’t trained to the same level. PCSOs are trained, we invest heavily in making sure our staff are well trained, but they’re trained for a different role so we’ve already covered that really and I think we’re taking away the idea you suggested it’s common sense."
Mr Andrews from Bidston asked, "I live in the Bidston & St James ward and we’ve had a lot recently of antisocial behaviour from a particular gang of young lads who are aged between the ages of fourteen and seventeen. Now one of the requests that people keep on asking is why the police station in Laird Street was closed down? I know the answer’s going to be because of lack of funds, but when police officers have to come from the main station, here in Birkenhead when there’s a perfectly good facility there, why can that not be utilised at least for part of the day?"
Jane Kennedy said, "I think Laird Street has been has been affected. Certainly most police stations were closed to the public in terms of general enquiry desks some time ago, certainly before my time but Laird Street there was a long discussion at the Police Authority, I’m looking at Moira here, about how best to bring Laird Street back. I consulted on a strategy for police stations like Laird Street last October & November and the public supported the idea of disposing of the buildings like Laird Street which doesn’t lend itself to modern day policing.
Disposing of the building but find in the neighbourhood before we dispose of it a place where we could have a community police station where a regular surgery would be guaranteed to be held by the force and that’s the plan for Laird Street. It’s going to be quite some time before we do that and in the meantime the facilities at Laird Street I’m told are really very poor. So the force isn’t using it, it’s probably because it isn’t fit for them to use either. It’s not condemned or anything but I don’t think it’s a very comfortable place."
Councillor Moira McLaughlin (one of the representatives on the Merseyside Police and Crime Panel) added, "We do have long discussions, I think the issue that we discussed was that plans for closure went ahead before the alternative provision was located and I think that proved a difficulty certainly in Rock Ferry and I know in Laird Street so that was the issue really.
As the plan went forward these alternative provisions weren’t identified, from what I hear you say at the moment I think that’s still the case, is that right?"
Jane Kennedy responded, "Well I wasn’t aware that, I think that Laird Street was occasionally used by the Force but not to any extent. It has been closed to the public for quite some time and the proposal was always to try and find an alternative facility so we never found that. We’re doing it in a staged process over ten years so we don’t have too great a burden on the police budget in terms of capital investment."
Anna from the St James Centre added, "Just to reassure you we are exploring options for supporting the police to have some kind of base within the North End and the St James Centre at the moment. Very early stages but those conversations are happening. Just to reassure you."
Mr Andrews expressed concern that if the police were based in the St James Centre, then at the times the public needed them that the St James Centre wouldn’t be open. Jane Kennedy replied, "I think what we are looking to provide in a community police station is not a base that will be open every day and used by the force but a base where police officers or PCSOs will be guaranteed in an advertised surgery to be available for the public to come and talk to and the feedback I got from the public was that the fact that the force had closed all its general enquiry desks meant that the public felt the force had moved away from them in their locations.
Now what we don’t want is officers, few as they now are, whether they are PCSOs, general enquiry officers or police officers tied to buildings when we need them out working in the street with housing officers, social workers and all of the others who are working to reduce antisocial behaviour.
So what we’ve found in other areas when we have community police stations there would be a modern, in the window if it is finally agreed at the community centre, St James Centre, if that is the place that is decided upon what we intend to do is to have a modern, digital way of telling the public when the surgery is going to be, advertising it on a screen so that it will be regularly updated including information about recent crime trends when the public have been engaged with and asked for information. So that’s the model we’re going to be implementing. I haven’t got one I can show you yet on the Wirral, but we’re working hard to deliver it and as soon as we do we’ll invite you to come and have a look."
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