Labour | A blog about Wirral Council, Wirral Council's councillors & officers

Labour councillor bans filming at public meeting to decide whether to licence a taxi that’s over 10 years old

Last Thursday there was a public meeting of Wirral Council’s Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee. Part of this meeting considered an item deferred from a Licensing Panel the week before.

The report on that item titled HACKNEY CARRIAGE VEHICLE LICENCE APPLICATION – LTI TXII REGISTRATION NUMBER WX03 FPE can be read by following this link.

The application was for a hackney carriage vehicle that is 12 years old.

In August 2014, new regulations came into force that prevent councils stopping filming at public meetings.

Below is a transcript of what happened at the Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee meeting on the 25th March 2015. It shows that Wirral Council still thinks it has the power to stop filming at public meetings.

Derek Cummins is a union representative in the UNITE union. Margaret O’Donnell works for Wirral Council.

Councillor Bill Davies gets irate and starts wagging his finger when he's told he can't ban filming any more Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee 25th March 2015 — Councillor Bill Davies gets irate and starts wagging his finger when he’s told he can’t ban filming any more Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee 25th March 2015

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Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th March 2015

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): The next item, the last item is… Margaret? Do you want to come forward sir?

CLLR TOM ANDERSON: Is this exempt?

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Are we exempted?

CLLR STEVE NIBLOCK: Can we ask for legal clarification about whether or not this item should be exempt because it might be to do with personal or financial circumstances with regard to this application and I’d prefer that we should consider whether it was exempt?

LEGAL ADVISOR TO COMMITTEE: I think we need to clarify whether or not there’s an objection first from the individual before we determine whether or not a decision needs to be made in that respect.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Are you objecting sir?

TAXI DRIVER: Well, yeah sorry, are you talking about my finance?

DEREK CUMMINS: He didn’t quite understand. Yeah, if it’s possible.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): If you’ll just come forward.

TAXI DRIVER: Sorry.

MARGARET O’DONNELL: Just stay there.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yeah, just, just keep, yeah sorry, so you don’t, you’re not identified at the present time.

DEREK CUMMINS: Yeah, just to be confident it’s that disagreement on the internet, I don’t want for, for the, could we just sort of err stop filming this side? Well I would suggest it.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: Yes, he said stop filming.

UNKNOWN COUNCILLOR: Stop filming.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: So do it under 12A!

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): You don’t want to be filmed or recorded?

TAXI DRIVER: I’m ok, it’s just err on the finance.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yeah.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): There’s finance involved?

CLLRS STEVE NIBLOCK AND CLLRS JOHN SALTER: Yeah.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Right you cannot be filmed because finances are going to be involved.

JOHN BRACE: Sorry did he say he was ok with being filmed but we’re going to be excluded anyway?

DEREK CUMMINS: Yeah, he did.

JOHN BRACE: In a bit yeah? That’s fine, but they’ve got to agree the exclusion first.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): I can’t, I can’t hear from up here, would someone, would someone?

MARGARET O’DONNELL: Can I assist? Firstly, err Derek are you representing the applicant?

DEREK CUMMINS: He didn’t come to me at all, it’s just he doesn’t quite understand what the agenda is.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: We’re concerned about you being filmed and disclosing personal information.

DEREK CUMMINS: That goes on the internet.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: That could very well end up on the internet

OTHER COUNCILLOR: Yeah.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: and on Youtube.

DEREK CUMMINS: So you’d rather have that handled?

TAXI DRIVER: No, yeah. Yeah.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: We’re trying to protect your interests so you’re alright.

TAXI DRIVER: Thank you.

DEREK CUMMINS: So there’s a thing called 7A so we’re excluded, everyone’s excluded, except you.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: So would you be happier if we just said no filming?

TAXI DRIVER: Please.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yes.

TAXI DRIVER: Please.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yes Chair.

JOHN BRACE: If they’re excluding the public then it doesn’t matter.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Sorry, it’s not an exempt item. The person can stay but they don’t film.

JOHN BRACE: I’m getting confused now. Sorry are you excluding members of the public or not?

CLLR BILL DAVIES (and other councillors): No, no, no, no.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: But you can’t film.

JOHN BRACE: But the reason….

CLLR BILL DAVIES: He’s an individual, if he’s got human rights like everybody else. He doesn’t want to be filmed, he doesn’t want to be filmed.

JOHN BRACE: I was just going to point out that although we had this discussion a lot longer at Standards

CLLR DAVID ELDERTON: Please take it down and take it out.

JOHN BRACE: Sorry can I finish what I’m saying? Err, I thought you were about to say you were going to exclude the members of the press and public and he was going to stay and you were just going to decide that, but now you’re saying you’re going to decide, if you’re going to decide this when the press and public are going to be here then the regulations say that any bit of the meeting that’s public can be filmed but obviously if we were excluded then we can’t film it.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Well the gentleman there does not want to be filmed.

JOHN BRACE: Yeah but I can film the other side of the room?

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): That’s what he’s saying. I think that’s quite clear! Some of us don’t want to be filmed. At the end of the day, if it ends up on the internet or Youtube this committee and the officers and something goes wrong will be responsible. It won’t be you, it will be us and this man has said, do you want that recorded. Do you want to be filmed or recorded?

TAXI DRIVER: No.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): That’s fine. You can stay but you don’t film or record. I have made it quite clear because the gentleman, if the gentleman wants to be filmed, no problem. He doesn’t.

JOHN BRACE: OK.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): OK.

CLLR DAVID ELDERTON: It is the Chair’s discretion.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Yep. OK.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Will you switch it off?

JOHN BRACE: At the Standards Committee it was said if you’re going make a decision that filming is not allowed, then you record that in the minutes with the reasons.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Yeah, I will do that.

JOHN BRACE: OK, could you give..

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): but we’re not at the Standards Committee, we’re at the Licensing Committee.

JOHN BRACE: Yeah, I know, but just

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): but you must realise that there’s certain times when individuals have private, personal or financial and they do not want their business spread elsewhere.

JOHN BRACE: I’ll just say I’d like that recorded in the minutes and if that’s the case then I’ll stop filming because I want to challenge that anyway under the regulations so that’s my position.

=======================================================================================================

Once the camera was switched off and the lens cover was shut, councillors went back on what they’d said and excluded the press and public from the rest of the meeting anyway!

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Councillor Phil Davies "the closure of the [Lyndale] School is the most viable option"

Councillor Phil Davies “the closure of the [Lyndale] School is the most viable option”

On Friday I published Councillor Paul Hayes “The aspiration should not be for imitation for the Lyndale School, we have the real thing”.

There was a quote by the late Terry Pratchett who put it thus “Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”

In Wirral Council the man with the vote is the Leader of the Council Councillor Phil Davies. Here’s what he had to say about Lyndale School.

Councillor Phil Davies talks about Lyndale School 24th February 2015

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Thank you Mr Mayor.

I’d like to provide my comments into a response now on Lyndale School and then the Jeff Green budget.

First of all on Lyndale School Mr Mayor, last year we had a thorough consultation about the future of Lyndale School. This consultation was supported by many discussions with parents, indeed I myself and the Cabinet Member met with parents, discussions with Members and others with an interest in the future of the School and the children.

Cabinet received reports on the 4th September and the 17th December last year which gave the outcome of the consultation and the representation period regarding the proposed closure of the Lyndale School.

Cabinet on the 17th December took the difficult decision to close the School with the agreed closure date of the 31st August 2016. At this meeting of Cabinet on the 17th December Members took into account the full range of issues and themes which emerged during the representation period.

Can I remind Members that the report to Cabinet on the 4th of September contained a detailed account of the outcome of the consultation held on the Wirral and the SEN Improvement Test?

Cabinet decided the closure because the viability of the School was compromised by its small size and falling roll. There are currently twenty-one children on the roll of the School. Members will be aware that there has been uncertainty about the future of the School for a number of years now and that uncertainty has been resolved by the Cabinet decision to close the School. Following the Schools Forum on the 14th January 2015, the schools have already been consulted on the schools budget for 15/16, this was agreed by Cabinet on the 10th February.

Taking all these factors into account, I do not believe that it is a viable option to anticipate that the Schools Forum will vote in favour of funding or retaining the Lyndale School. This is chaos. There are currently twenty-one pupils as I said before and this has been reducing in recent years.

There are two other primary schools for children with complex learning difficulties including children with profound and multiple learning difficulties which can provide good enough or better opportunities for current pupils at Lyndale School or future primary aged children with PMLD. The suitability of both these schools has been extensively considered and reported previously.

The Council has given careful consideration to its statutory duty to ensure that there is sufficient school places with further access to educational opportunities. It’s carefully considered the correct statutory process and guidance has been followed which includes careful consideration of the Special Educational Needs Improvement Test and equality impact assessment.

The size of the school and its falling roll and the availability of other suitable primary schools on the Wirral, it has taken account of all the views, representations and has considered details and implications including financial issues and concluded that the closure of the School is the most viable option.

Mr Mayor taking all these factors into account I cannot see that there is any basis for seeking a revocation notice to consult on those proposals to stop all current planned action being taken to close the Lyndale School. Similarly there is no basis I believe, obviously we’d negotiate with the Schools Forum to consider allocating money at the detriment of other schools who are already experiencing enormous financial pressures due to the allocation of a flat cash budget and increasing pressures on all schools to deliver a balanced budget.

Mr Mayor I do want to acknowledge that this has been a difficult and uncertain time for families with children at Lyndale School and their staff but every effort will be made to ensure that there are good plans for each and every child to secure alternative school provision with strong plans for transition in place well before the School closes in July 2016.

So Mr Mayor that’s my response to the Lyndale School.

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Councillor Paul Hayes "The aspiration should not be for imitation for the Lyndale School, we have the real thing"

Councillor Paul Hayes “The aspiration should not be for imitation for the Lyndale School, we have the real thing”

On the day that Wirral Council fires the starting gun in the local elections with the publication of the notice of election giving candidates until 4pm on Thursday 9th April to submit their nomination papers, I thought it would be good to look back at an issue that has divided the political parties on Wirral Council which was the decision to close Lyndale School.

When Wirral Council met last month to decide its budget for 2015/16 the Conservatives submitted an amendment to Labour’s schools budget. As the amendment was short I will repeat it here:

The Lyndale School

Council recognises the unique and caring environment provided by The Lyndale School to children with profound and multiple learning difficulties. Council acknowledges the value of this facility and affirms its belief that such provision should remain at The Lyndale School.

Council, having regard to the overwhelming support given to the campaign to keep The Lyndale School open by the public of Wirral recognises that The Lyndale School should remain open and wishes to bring to an end the anguish and uncertainty that has been heaped on pupils and their parents and carers throughout this whole sorry saga.

Accordingly, Council requests Cabinet to issue a Revocation Notice to consult on proposals to stop all current and planned action being taken to close The Lyndale School immediately. Should this be approved, Cabinet is further requested to instruct officers to commence negotiations with the Schools Forum and other relevant stakeholders in relation to the High Needs Funding Formula so as to identify and secure adequate funding to enable The Lyndale School to remain open from 1 April 2016. The revised High Needs Funding Formula shall be expressly detailed in the Schools Budget for 2016/17.

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Councillor Paul Hayes speaks about Lyndale School 24th February 2015

Here’s what Councillor Paul Hayes had to say on the Conservative amendment to the Schools Budget:

Mr Mayor, tonight we will expect the usual debates on the principles of budgetary principles for the Council and how we prioritise taxpayers’ money to deliver services, but the fact is Mr Mayor this issue, the Lyndale School is not about money. So much has already been confirmed throughout this entire process both by the Cabinet Member and by council officers.

Mr Mayor, this is about, this isn’t about cuts from above, it’s about choices on the ground, choices in this Town Hall and in this Chamber this evening. It’s about how you choose to care and educate for some of the most vulnerable children in our community, children with some of the most profound and multiple learning difficulties and Mr Mayor surely there can be no doubt that the excellent caring and learning environment provided to the children of Lyndale School for so long should continue to be done so at the Lyndale School in Eastham.

The aspiration should not be for imitation for the Lyndale School, we have the real thing, right here in Wirral. Surely Members will join me in the fight to keep it?

Mr Mayor, the Council needs to listen to the real experts in this issue, the parents, the staff and the carers of the pupils of Lyndale. These families who have stood steadfast in defence of this excellent school. We shouldn’t be blindly accepting the views of an expert consultant who charged us £10,000 for the benefit of her advice and as I’ve learned today an extra £500 when called to give evidence at the call in.

Mr Mayor, the Lyndale campaign was of course and as we’ve heard tonight from other Members been recently boosted by Dawn Hughes and her daughter Ellie, I know that Dawn is in the public gallery this evening. She secured backing of a tribunal in her battle to keep Ellie at the School which gives her so much security and comfort.

Mr Mayor, if a learned and I’m sure very distinguished tribunal judge and its two lay panel members recognise the uniqueness of Lyndale School and the real harm moving children from this environment would cause then why can’t Wirral Council?

Mr Mayor, I know some of the Labour Members are very uncomfortable with the decision to close Lyndale School. I appeal to them to make their votes count tonight. This amendment, this second amendment does not put the Labour Budget at risk, it corrects an appalling decision which should never have been made and it halts the anguish which has been caused upon some of the most vulnerable families in our society. I know that it’s difficult to vote a different way to friends and colleagues in the same group and I should know as I’m probably going to do that at item 7a.

However Mr Mayor, this is too much of an important issue to be decided on imposed party whip or as Councillor Sullivan alluded to the block vote. I note that neither the Leader of the Council nor Councillor Tony Smith (the Cabinet Member) have mentioned the Lyndale School in their contributions earlier. I hope Members will not forget Lyndale amongst the political wrangling of tonight and vote to keep this crucial and vital school community.

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Incredible: Cllr Jones answers that councillors are "trusted" to exercise their judgement over when to use taxis

Incredible: Cllr Jones answers that councillors are “trusted” to exercise their judgement over when to use taxis

Hackney carriage by ed g2s • talk – Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons

On Monday I wrote Was there no available public transport when Wirral Council councillors took taxis?.

On Monday evening I asked Councillor Adrian Jones about councillor’s use of taxis during the public question time section of Council meeting. Below is a transcript of the answer he gave to my question (apart from one small section that is unclear) along with a transcript of my supplementary question and answer.

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JOHN BRACE: Thanks, as you said my question is to Councillor Jones.

Each year Wirral Council is required to publish annual totals of what councillors have claimed in travel expenses. Due to contracts with various taxi firms invoicing Wirral Council directly thousands of pounds of expenses weren’t included in the list for 2013/14.

The Members Allowance Scheme states that the use of taxis (or councillors’ own cars) for attending meetings is only permitted where public transport is either not available, or the journey by public transport would be likely to result in unreasonable delay.

For the taxi journeys made by councillors that were not included in the annual published lists for 2013/14 and those made since can you confirm:

(a) each journey was taken where there is no available public transport (or taking public transport would lead to unreasonable delay) and if not will councillors involved be refunding Wirral Council and

(b) what changes will be made so that the expenses for such journeys made in 2014/15 will be included next time the annual lists are published? Thank you.

CLLR ADRIAN JONES (CABINET MEMBER FOR SUPPORT SERVICES): Thank you for your question John.

The Council’s Members Allowance Scheme is detailed in part six of the constitution and paragraph 8(a) deals with travel costs but I’m sure you already know that.

The roles and personal circumstances of Members varies widely as do demands and expectations of their constituents and this has to be followed by considering which journey for Wirral that Members do.

Some Members for various reasons have no reason to use taxis in order to carry out some of their duties. It’s the responsibility of those Members concerned to determine when to use a taxi and in doing so Members are trusted to make a judgement that is consistent with the Members Allowances Scheme.

Members in exercising that judgement will take account of a number of factors such as the public transport arrangements available at the time in question, including the frequency of service, the length of time between connections and the consequent time it’ll take to get to and from their destination.

This is also balanced against other factors including personal and family circumstances, other conflicting commitments including a Member’s employment, other engagements and appointments to be attended that day and also for safety issues, health and safety issues that may arise at a particular time such as late night travel and …

The Council has negotiated competitive prices and entered into contracts with a local taxi company to provide transport for Members in accordance with the Members Allowances Scheme. The taxi company submits its invoices and the details of the Members that used the taxis each month directly to the Council for payment. The advantage of this arrangement is that the cost of transport by taxis is always at the negotiated rate and is a more efficient way to manage the service.

Now these costs have not been published on that basis previously, however in future the cost of Member’s taxi journeys undertaken pertinent to these taxi contracts will be published on the Council’s website as soon as practicable after the end of each financial year.

I will just add John that I’ve no doubt in targeting your question to the use of taxis you may be thought to have missed the big picture as the use of private cars is also charged to the public purse and that’s a point that will go over on both sides of the room.

Various councillors: Hear, hear.

Mayor: Do we, are we allowing the press a supplementary? You want a supplementary? OK.

JOHN BRACE: Thank you for that answer Councillor Jones.

The information about taxi journeys made by some councillors was provided to me on the 23rd January 2015 in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Since that time I have made four further FOI requests that have not been answered at all within the statutory twenty days, there are a further six that have not been responded to and only this morning I received an email from the Information Commissioners Office that said they would be drafting a decision notice about the Council’s failure to respond to an internal review request that was made on the 12th of November last year.

Will he apologise tonight for the way that this Council is ignoring my requests made under the Freedom of Information legislation and send me a written answer before the elections in May as to what is happening to improve Wirral Council’s performance when requests for information are made using the Freedom of Information Act legislation?

CLLR ADRIAN JONES: I’ll ask for a report as on why your question wasn’t answered and I’ll get back to you soon.

JOHN BRACE: Thank you.

——————————————————————————————————-

In answer to Councillor Jones’ point about use of councillor’s own cars to attend meetings being part of the bigger picture I refer him (and readers) to the fact I published all these (for 2013/14) last year:

Here are some links:

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Was there no available public transport when Wirral Council councillors took taxis?

Hackney carriage by ed g2s • talk – Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons.

The question I will be asking at tonight’s Council meeting to Councillor Adrian Jones is to do with a blog post I wrote back on the 26th January headlined “INCREDIBLE: £2,877.35 spent by Wirral Council last year in previously hidden payments on taxis for Labour councillors!”.

It led to Row as Wirral Labour councillors rack up nearly £3,000 expense claims for taxis by Emma Rigby in the Wirral Globe, a Granty’s Inferno column headlined GRANTY’S INFERNO: Taxi-happy Wirral councillors are taking us all for a ride and someone writing a letter in to the Wirral Globe Not ‘horrified’ by Wirral councillors’ taxi fare bill.

Below is the text of my question to Councillor Adrian Jones (the Cabinet Member for Support Services):

“Each year Wirral Council is required to publish annual totals of what councillors have claimed in travel expenses. Due to contracts with various taxi firms invoicing Wirral Council directly thousands of pounds of expenses weren’t included in the list for 2013/14.

For the taxi journeys made by councillors not included in the annual published lists for 2013/14 and those made since can you confirm:

(b) what changes will be made so that the expenses for such journeys made in 2014/15 will be included next time the annual lists are published?”

Since the MP expenses scandal a number of years ago, there is much more transparency now over MP’s expenses. If I wanted to I could go on a website and search for my MP’s taxi expenses.

For example by looking at that website I can tell you that my MP Frank Field travelled by taxi on the 10th October 2014 from Rock Ferry to Conway Park station costing £6. I doubt there’ll ever be that level of openness and transparency for expense claims by councillors, but during the audit last summer I exercised my right to request (see s.15 of the Audit Commission Act 1998)the documentation providing amounts, what transport they used, mileage et cetera for travel expenses for councillors during the 2013/14 financial year.

A lot of paperwork was provided (which I published on this blog), but the detail about taxi journeys by Labour councillors revealed through a Freedom of Information Act request here was not (and this is only the annual totals and not at the detail of each journey).

It’s only if information was provided on the level of detail of each journey that the question about whether there was no available public transport could be answered. I’m sure Wirral Council should have this information from the invoices from the taxi firms. When this part of the passenger transport contract was put out to tender this year lot 4 was described as follows:

“LOT4 – This contract is for ad hoc journeys by taxi to allow Wirral Councillors to travel to various venues across Wirral.

This contract will allow Wirral Councillors to travel around Wirral on official Council business. The times will vary and may include evening and weekends.”

I look forward to hearing Councillor Jones’ answer this evening!

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Labour councillor bans filming at public meeting to decide whether to licence a taxi that’s over 10 years old

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Councillor Phil Davies “the closure of the [Lyndale] School is the most viable option”

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Councillor Paul Hayes “The aspiration should not be for imitation for the Lyndale School, we have the real thing”

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Incredible: Cllr Jones answers that councillors are “trusted” to exercise their judgement over when to use taxis

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Was there no available public transport when Wirral Council councillors took taxis?

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