taxi | A blog about Wirral Council, Wirral Council's councillors & officers

Labour councillor bans filming at public meeting to decide whether to licence a taxi that’s over 10 years old

Last Thursday there was a public meeting of Wirral Council’s Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee. Part of this meeting considered an item deferred from a Licensing Panel the week before.

The report on that item titled HACKNEY CARRIAGE VEHICLE LICENCE APPLICATION – LTI TXII REGISTRATION NUMBER WX03 FPE can be read by following this link.

The application was for a hackney carriage vehicle that is 12 years old.

In August 2014, new regulations came into force that prevent councils stopping filming at public meetings.

Below is a transcript of what happened at the Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee meeting on the 25th March 2015. It shows that Wirral Council still thinks it has the power to stop filming at public meetings.

Derek Cummins is a union representative in the UNITE union. Margaret O’Donnell works for Wirral Council.

Councillor Bill Davies gets irate and starts wagging his finger when he's told he can't ban filming any more Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee 25th March 2015 — Councillor Bill Davies gets irate and starts wagging his finger when he’s told he can’t ban filming any more Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee 25th March 2015

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Licensing, Health and Safety and General Purposes Committee (Wirral Council) 25th March 2015

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): The next item, the last item is… Margaret? Do you want to come forward sir?

CLLR TOM ANDERSON: Is this exempt?

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Are we exempted?

CLLR STEVE NIBLOCK: Can we ask for legal clarification about whether or not this item should be exempt because it might be to do with personal or financial circumstances with regard to this application and I’d prefer that we should consider whether it was exempt?

LEGAL ADVISOR TO COMMITTEE: I think we need to clarify whether or not there’s an objection first from the individual before we determine whether or not a decision needs to be made in that respect.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Are you objecting sir?

TAXI DRIVER: Well, yeah sorry, are you talking about my finance?

DEREK CUMMINS: He didn’t quite understand. Yeah, if it’s possible.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): If you’ll just come forward.

TAXI DRIVER: Sorry.

MARGARET O’DONNELL: Just stay there.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yeah, just, just keep, yeah sorry, so you don’t, you’re not identified at the present time.

DEREK CUMMINS: Yeah, just to be confident it’s that disagreement on the internet, I don’t want for, for the, could we just sort of err stop filming this side? Well I would suggest it.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: Yes, he said stop filming.

UNKNOWN COUNCILLOR: Stop filming.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: So do it under 12A!

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): You don’t want to be filmed or recorded?

TAXI DRIVER: I’m ok, it’s just err on the finance.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yeah.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): There’s finance involved?

CLLRS STEVE NIBLOCK AND CLLRS JOHN SALTER: Yeah.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Right you cannot be filmed because finances are going to be involved.

JOHN BRACE: Sorry did he say he was ok with being filmed but we’re going to be excluded anyway?

DEREK CUMMINS: Yeah, he did.

JOHN BRACE: In a bit yeah? That’s fine, but they’ve got to agree the exclusion first.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): I can’t, I can’t hear from up here, would someone, would someone?

MARGARET O’DONNELL: Can I assist? Firstly, err Derek are you representing the applicant?

DEREK CUMMINS: He didn’t come to me at all, it’s just he doesn’t quite understand what the agenda is.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: We’re concerned about you being filmed and disclosing personal information.

DEREK CUMMINS: That goes on the internet.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: That could very well end up on the internet

OTHER COUNCILLOR: Yeah.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: and on Youtube.

DEREK CUMMINS: So you’d rather have that handled?

TAXI DRIVER: No, yeah. Yeah.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: We’re trying to protect your interests so you’re alright.

TAXI DRIVER: Thank you.

DEREK CUMMINS: So there’s a thing called 7A so we’re excluded, everyone’s excluded, except you.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: So would you be happier if we just said no filming?

TAXI DRIVER: Please.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yes.

TAXI DRIVER: Please.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Yes Chair.

JOHN BRACE: If they’re excluding the public then it doesn’t matter.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Sorry, it’s not an exempt item. The person can stay but they don’t film.

JOHN BRACE: I’m getting confused now. Sorry are you excluding members of the public or not?

CLLR BILL DAVIES (and other councillors): No, no, no, no.

CLLR MICHAEL SULLIVAN: But you can’t film.

JOHN BRACE: But the reason….

CLLR BILL DAVIES: He’s an individual, if he’s got human rights like everybody else. He doesn’t want to be filmed, he doesn’t want to be filmed.

JOHN BRACE: I was just going to point out that although we had this discussion a lot longer at Standards

CLLR DAVID ELDERTON: Please take it down and take it out.

JOHN BRACE: Sorry can I finish what I’m saying? Err, I thought you were about to say you were going to exclude the members of the press and public and he was going to stay and you were just going to decide that, but now you’re saying you’re going to decide, if you’re going to decide this when the press and public are going to be here then the regulations say that any bit of the meeting that’s public can be filmed but obviously if we were excluded then we can’t film it.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Well the gentleman there does not want to be filmed.

JOHN BRACE: Yeah but I can film the other side of the room?

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): That’s what he’s saying. I think that’s quite clear! Some of us don’t want to be filmed. At the end of the day, if it ends up on the internet or Youtube this committee and the officers and something goes wrong will be responsible. It won’t be you, it will be us and this man has said, do you want that recorded. Do you want to be filmed or recorded?

TAXI DRIVER: No.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): That’s fine. You can stay but you don’t film or record. I have made it quite clear because the gentleman, if the gentleman wants to be filmed, no problem. He doesn’t.

JOHN BRACE: OK.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): OK.

CLLR DAVID ELDERTON: It is the Chair’s discretion.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Yep. OK.

CLLR JOHN SALTER: Will you switch it off?

JOHN BRACE: At the Standards Committee it was said if you’re going make a decision that filming is not allowed, then you record that in the minutes with the reasons.

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): Yeah, I will do that.

JOHN BRACE: OK, could you give..

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): but we’re not at the Standards Committee, we’re at the Licensing Committee.

JOHN BRACE: Yeah, I know, but just

CLLR BILL DAVIES (Chair): but you must realise that there’s certain times when individuals have private, personal or financial and they do not want their business spread elsewhere.

JOHN BRACE: I’ll just say I’d like that recorded in the minutes and if that’s the case then I’ll stop filming because I want to challenge that anyway under the regulations so that’s my position.

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Once the camera was switched off and the lens cover was shut, councillors went back on what they’d said and excluded the press and public from the rest of the meeting anyway!

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Incredible: Cllr Jones answers that councillors are "trusted" to exercise their judgement over when to use taxis

Incredible: Cllr Jones answers that councillors are “trusted” to exercise their judgement over when to use taxis

Hackney carriage by ed g2s • talk – Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons

On Monday I wrote Was there no available public transport when Wirral Council councillors took taxis?.

On Monday evening I asked Councillor Adrian Jones about councillor’s use of taxis during the public question time section of Council meeting. Below is a transcript of the answer he gave to my question (apart from one small section that is unclear) along with a transcript of my supplementary question and answer.

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JOHN BRACE: Thanks, as you said my question is to Councillor Jones.

Each year Wirral Council is required to publish annual totals of what councillors have claimed in travel expenses. Due to contracts with various taxi firms invoicing Wirral Council directly thousands of pounds of expenses weren’t included in the list for 2013/14.

The Members Allowance Scheme states that the use of taxis (or councillors’ own cars) for attending meetings is only permitted where public transport is either not available, or the journey by public transport would be likely to result in unreasonable delay.

For the taxi journeys made by councillors that were not included in the annual published lists for 2013/14 and those made since can you confirm:

(a) each journey was taken where there is no available public transport (or taking public transport would lead to unreasonable delay) and if not will councillors involved be refunding Wirral Council and

(b) what changes will be made so that the expenses for such journeys made in 2014/15 will be included next time the annual lists are published? Thank you.

CLLR ADRIAN JONES (CABINET MEMBER FOR SUPPORT SERVICES): Thank you for your question John.

The Council’s Members Allowance Scheme is detailed in part six of the constitution and paragraph 8(a) deals with travel costs but I’m sure you already know that.

The roles and personal circumstances of Members varies widely as do demands and expectations of their constituents and this has to be followed by considering which journey for Wirral that Members do.

Some Members for various reasons have no reason to use taxis in order to carry out some of their duties. It’s the responsibility of those Members concerned to determine when to use a taxi and in doing so Members are trusted to make a judgement that is consistent with the Members Allowances Scheme.

Members in exercising that judgement will take account of a number of factors such as the public transport arrangements available at the time in question, including the frequency of service, the length of time between connections and the consequent time it’ll take to get to and from their destination.

This is also balanced against other factors including personal and family circumstances, other conflicting commitments including a Member’s employment, other engagements and appointments to be attended that day and also for safety issues, health and safety issues that may arise at a particular time such as late night travel and …

The Council has negotiated competitive prices and entered into contracts with a local taxi company to provide transport for Members in accordance with the Members Allowances Scheme. The taxi company submits its invoices and the details of the Members that used the taxis each month directly to the Council for payment. The advantage of this arrangement is that the cost of transport by taxis is always at the negotiated rate and is a more efficient way to manage the service.

Now these costs have not been published on that basis previously, however in future the cost of Member’s taxi journeys undertaken pertinent to these taxi contracts will be published on the Council’s website as soon as practicable after the end of each financial year.

I will just add John that I’ve no doubt in targeting your question to the use of taxis you may be thought to have missed the big picture as the use of private cars is also charged to the public purse and that’s a point that will go over on both sides of the room.

Various councillors: Hear, hear.

Mayor: Do we, are we allowing the press a supplementary? You want a supplementary? OK.

JOHN BRACE: Thank you for that answer Councillor Jones.

The information about taxi journeys made by some councillors was provided to me on the 23rd January 2015 in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Since that time I have made four further FOI requests that have not been answered at all within the statutory twenty days, there are a further six that have not been responded to and only this morning I received an email from the Information Commissioners Office that said they would be drafting a decision notice about the Council’s failure to respond to an internal review request that was made on the 12th of November last year.

Will he apologise tonight for the way that this Council is ignoring my requests made under the Freedom of Information legislation and send me a written answer before the elections in May as to what is happening to improve Wirral Council’s performance when requests for information are made using the Freedom of Information Act legislation?

CLLR ADRIAN JONES: I’ll ask for a report as on why your question wasn’t answered and I’ll get back to you soon.

JOHN BRACE: Thank you.

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In answer to Councillor Jones’ point about use of councillor’s own cars to attend meetings being part of the bigger picture I refer him (and readers) to the fact I published all these (for 2013/14) last year:

Here are some links:

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Was there no available public transport when Wirral Council councillors took taxis?

Hackney carriage by ed g2s • talk – Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons.

The question I will be asking at tonight’s Council meeting to Councillor Adrian Jones is to do with a blog post I wrote back on the 26th January headlined “INCREDIBLE: £2,877.35 spent by Wirral Council last year in previously hidden payments on taxis for Labour councillors!”.

It led to Row as Wirral Labour councillors rack up nearly £3,000 expense claims for taxis by Emma Rigby in the Wirral Globe, a Granty’s Inferno column headlined GRANTY’S INFERNO: Taxi-happy Wirral councillors are taking us all for a ride and someone writing a letter in to the Wirral Globe Not ‘horrified’ by Wirral councillors’ taxi fare bill.

Below is the text of my question to Councillor Adrian Jones (the Cabinet Member for Support Services):

“Each year Wirral Council is required to publish annual totals of what councillors have claimed in travel expenses. Due to contracts with various taxi firms invoicing Wirral Council directly thousands of pounds of expenses weren’t included in the list for 2013/14.

For the taxi journeys made by councillors not included in the annual published lists for 2013/14 and those made since can you confirm:

(b) what changes will be made so that the expenses for such journeys made in 2014/15 will be included next time the annual lists are published?”

Since the MP expenses scandal a number of years ago, there is much more transparency now over MP’s expenses. If I wanted to I could go on a website and search for my MP’s taxi expenses.

For example by looking at that website I can tell you that my MP Frank Field travelled by taxi on the 10th October 2014 from Rock Ferry to Conway Park station costing £6. I doubt there’ll ever be that level of openness and transparency for expense claims by councillors, but during the audit last summer I exercised my right to request (see s.15 of the Audit Commission Act 1998)the documentation providing amounts, what transport they used, mileage et cetera for travel expenses for councillors during the 2013/14 financial year.

A lot of paperwork was provided (which I published on this blog), but the detail about taxi journeys by Labour councillors revealed through a Freedom of Information Act request here was not (and this is only the annual totals and not at the detail of each journey).

It’s only if information was provided on the level of detail of each journey that the question about whether there was no available public transport could be answered. I’m sure Wirral Council should have this information from the invoices from the taxi firms. When this part of the passenger transport contract was put out to tender this year lot 4 was described as follows:

“LOT4 – This contract is for ad hoc journeys by taxi to allow Wirral Councillors to travel to various venues across Wirral.

This contract will allow Wirral Councillors to travel around Wirral on official Council business. The times will vary and may include evening and weekends.”

I look forward to hearing Councillor Jones’ answer this evening!

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INCREDIBLE: £2,877.35 spent by Wirral Council last year in previously hidden payments on taxis for Labour councillors!

Hackney carriage by ed g2s • talk – Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons.

Every year, a legal requirement on Wirral Council means that they have to publish for each councillor how much was spent on travelling and subsistence allowances for each councillor.

The list published for 2013/14 is on Wirral Council’s website.

Last year I made a Freedom of Information Act request for a breakdown of payments made to three taxi firms (A.P. Contract Hire Ltd, Wallasey Cars Limited and Wirral Satellite Cars Limited) for taxi journeys made by councillors paid for by Wirral Council.

Here is the breakdown for each councillor, taxi firm and total amount for that financial year.

AP Contract Hire
Cllr Irene Williams £11.20
Cllr Phil Davies (Plus 3 Staff) £54.00
Cllr Steve Niblock £51.00

AP Contract Hire Total £116.20

Wallasey Cars
Cllr Bill Davies £25.00
former Cllr Brian Kenny £5.00
Cllr Christina Muspratt £10.10
Cllr Irene Williams £46.20
Cllr Joe Walsh £50.60
Cllr Moira McLaughlin £197.10
Cllr Pat Hackett £700.00
Cllr Steve Niblock £442.90
Cllr Tony Norbury £13.00

Wallasey Cars Total £1,489.90

Wirral Satellite Cars
Cllr Bill Davies £106.65
Cllr Chris Meaden £6.70
Cllr Christina Muspratt £159.40
Cllr Denise Realey £20.10
Cllr Harry Smith £25.20
Cllr Irene Williams £117.70
Cllr Joe Walsh £184.55
Cllr Moira McLaughlin £558.20
Cllr Phil Brightmore £7.30
Cllr Steve Foulkes £17.50
Cllr Steve Niblock £16.00
Cllr Tony Norbury £51.95

Wirral Satellite Cars Total £1,271.25

Grand Total £2,877.35

An amount of £10.20 for an Anne Davis for Wallasey Cars was also included in the response to my request, but as there is no councillor called Anne Davis, I have not included this amount in the figures above.

One thing to be noted is that all the councillors in this list are from the same party (Labour Party). Let’s take one councillor’s taxi expenses at random and compare them to the published list for 2013/14.

Cllr Moira McLaughlin’s taxi rides came to £197.10 with Wallasey Cars and £558.20 with Wirral Satellite Cars (total £755.30).

However next to Cllr Moira McLaughlin’s name on the published list of expenses are two entries. £40.10 for “expenses” and £167.29 for subsistence. This comes to a total of £207.39 that comprises the items detailed in the blog post expense claim forms for Councillor Moira McLaughlin 2013 to 2014. The taxi rides with Wallasey Cars and Wirral Satellite cars don’t appear at all despite regulation 15 requiring that Wirral Council publish the total annual sum paid by it for each councillor’s travel and subsistence allowance.

Taking another councillor from the list above, £700 was spent on taxi rides for Cllr Pat Hackett with Wallasey Cars. Yet when you read the published list for 2013/14 his expenses are down as £0 and travel expenses £0.

I would suspect that if I went through the list of councillors above I’d find that none of these taxi rides appear on the list that’s published each year. The response to my FOI request contains the line “The use of taxis’, and the associated costs, has been in connection with legitimate Council business.”

This all reminds me of that quote from Wirral Council’s former Chief Executive Graham Burgess of “We need to spend less on ourselves and more on services” and I wonder what the £2,877.35 spent on taxi journeys for councillors could have been spent on instead.

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11 more pages of Wirral Council councillors' mileage claims (Elderton, Hornby, Kelly, Povall, Salter, H Smith and P Williams)

11 more pages of Wirral Council councillors’ mileage claims (Elderton, Hornby, Kelly, Povall, Salter, H Smith and P Williams)

A long time ago I was up to the travel expenses for Cllr Phil Davies in the extra pages supplied last month that should’ve come in the original tranche in September.

The rests were scanned in, just until now haven’t been uploaded or blogged about. For the sake of convenience, I am just putting the remaining pages below. These aren’t complete for the 2013-14 as many are pages originally missing from those supplied by Wirral Council’s Human Resources department as part of the original request. For the other pages for those councillors you’ll have to look elsewhere on this blog.

These are a further eleven pages that cover Cllrs David Elderton, Mike Hornby, Stuart Kelly, Cherry Povall, John Salter, Harry Smith and Patricia Williams. I may blog about them in detail another time, but at least by publishing the rest of the pages are in the public domain should you wish to view them. Councillors are in alphabetical order by surname. There are multiple pages for some councillors.

There is also a mysterious taxi contract for councillors. I’m still awaiting further details on that and the Mayor and Deputy Mayor’s expenses for 2013-14.