Why did Wirral Council spend an incredible £1,872 on a London barrister to prevent openness and transparency?

Why did Wirral Council spend an incredible £1,872 on a London barrister to prevent openness and transparency?

Why did Wirral Council spend an incredible £1,872 on a London barrister to prevent openness and transparency?

                                                     

Treasury Building (Wirral Council), Hamilton Square, Birkenhead, 19th August 2014 (you can click on the photo for a more high-resolution version)
Treasury Building (Wirral Council), Hamilton Square, Birkenhead, 19th August 2014 (you can click on the photo for a more high-resolution version)

Yesterday on a sunny afternoon, I went to the Wirral Council building pictured above known as the Treasury Building to inspect various Wirral Council invoices. I was exercising an obscure right under s.15 of the Audit Commission Act 1998 c.18. This right means that for a few weeks each year, as an “interested person” you can inspect the accounts for the previous financial year that in the process of being audited by Grant Thornton. You can also inspect all books, deeds, contracts, bills, vouchers and receipts that relate to these accounting records and make copies of all or any part of the accounts and those other documents. This year (for Wirral Council) that period ran from 21st July to the 15th August, so sadly if you’re thinking of exercising this right you’ll now have to wait till next year to do so!

However I had put in my request during that brief time period for five areas I was interested in. I’ve briefly describe what those four areas were, the first was invoices from SCC PLC (which is a large IT company), the second and third batches were invoices for legal matters (solicitors, barristers, expert witnesses, court fees etc), the fourth were some general invoices and the fifth were various contracts (two of which were the Schools PFI contract and the Birkenhead Market lease).

The contracts aren’t ready yet, but the invoices were available for inspection yesterday and I also exercised my s.15(1)(b) right to copies. Just the copies of invoices comes to hundreds of pages of documents (which may take me a while to scan in). Some pages are more heavily redacted than others. However this blog post is going to concentrate on just one which is document 117 in one of the two legal bundles. The document (in the form I received it from Wirral Council) is below (you can click on the photo for a more readable version).

11KBW Invoice for appeal of an ICO decision notice (October 2013) Metropolitan Borough of Wirral (£1872) redacted
11KBW Invoice for appeal of an ICO decision notice (October 2013) Metropolitan Borough of Wirral (£1872) redacted

A bit of context is probably needed about this invoice first. 11KBW is a London-based chamber of barristers that specialise in employment, public and commercial law. You can find out more about them on their website. This particular invoice for £1,872 (including VAT) was for “perusing and considering papers, advising by email, telephone and writing and drafting grounds of appeal to an ICO decision notice”. Whereas the first bit of that is understandable, if you don’t know what an ICO decision notice is then I’d better explain.

If a person makes a Freedom of Information request to Wirral Council, then is not happy with the response, requests an internal review, then they’re not happy with the internal review they can appeal the decision to the Information Commissioner’s Office (known as ICO). The ICO prefer to deal with things informally, but if they can’t they will issue a “decision notice”. A decision notice is an independent view of ICO’s one way or the other on the FOI request and as to whether the body to whom it has been made has complied with the Freedom of Information legislation and sometimes also the Environmental Information Regulations.

Unless the body to whom the FOI request is made or the person making the request appeals the decision notice within 28 days, the body to whom the FOI request is made has to comply with the decision notice within 35 calendar days. Sometimes ICO agree with the body the FOI request is made to so no further action is required. Other times the decision notice compels the body (unless they appeal) to disclose the information. If the public body doesn’t comply with the decision notice within 35 calendar days then ICO can tell the High Court about this failure and it would be dealt with as a “contempt of court” issue.

Helpfully (unlike a lot of other court matters), ICO have a search function on their website for decision notices. As the invoice is for drafting grounds of an appeal (which has to happen within 28 days of the notice) a search for decision notices from the 27th September 2013 to the 25th October 2013 brings up three decision notices FS50496446, FS50491264 and FS50474741.

The first of those three (FS50496446) states in the summary “As the council has now provided a response, the Commissioner requires no steps to be taken.” so it’s not that one. The last sentence of the summary on FS50474741 states “This decision notice is currently under appeal to the Tribunal” (which is a little out of date as by now the tribunal has already reached its decision on that matter). Therefore this invoice is (by process of elimination) about the eight page decision notice FS50474741.

The decision notice goes into the detail about what the original FOI request (which you can read for yourself on the whatdotheyknow website) was about (made on the 4th February 2012), which is for correspondence between Wirral Council and DLA Piper UK LLP. Much of the correspondence is between DLA Piper Solicitors and Anna Klonowski Associates Limited and includes an amendment to the contract between AKA Limited and Wirral Council. The information also included Bill Norman (Borough Solicitor)’s advice to councillors on publication of Anna Klonowski Associate’s report which was previously published as an exclusive on this blog on December 12th 2011.

When the AKA report was published, the issue made the regional TV news (you can view a video clip of that below this paragraph) and a no confidence vote which removed both Cllr Steve Foulkes as Leader of the Council and the minority Labour administration. The Labour administration was replaced by a short-lived (~3 month) Conservative/Lib Dem one in the February of 2012. The whole matter was a very sensitive (and somewhat embarrassing) period in Wirral Council’s history (even more than the public inquiry into library closures was) and it’s probably somewhat understandable as to why Wirral Council didn’t want information as to what happened “behind the scenes” being released into the public domain. As far as I remember (and it was some years ago so I hope my memory is correct on this point), Wirral Council was paying DLA Piper to give legal advice to itself and AKA Limited. This was in relation to the inquiry of AKA Ltd started by Cllr Jeff Green into Martin Morton’s whistleblowing concerns (in the brief period when as a Conservative councillor he was Leader of the Council).

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However, in addition to the details of the decision notice, other information has been blacked out. The part at the top right where it states “professional fees of”, I think relates to a junior barrister called Mr Robin Hopkins who is also on Twitter. The reason behind this is that at the bottom of the invoice it states “PLEASE MAKE CHEQUES PAYABLE TO Mr Robin Hopkins” and his name also appears as the organisation name on the list of invoices Wirral Council publish of over £500 for October. On Wirral Council’s systems although a small number of invoices from barristers chambers come under the name of the barrister’s chambers, most appear using the barrister’s name as the organisation.

As to the name of the Wirral Council officer that the pro forma invoice is addressed to, it would seem most likely that this is Surjit Tour. Not only does his short name fit what is blacked out, but he’s also the Head of Service for this service area within Wirral Council. I don’t know whether he’d actually be the solicitor at Wirral Council giving instructions to the barrister on this issue (as there are over a dozen solicitors employed at Wirral Council). I’ve no idea whose signature it is on this invoice and there are three other places on the invoice where officers’ initials or names have also been blacked out.

When the appeal to ICO’s decision notice was heard at the First-Tier Information Tribunal you can read this post about it on Paul Cardin’s blog, there’s another write-up about it in Local Government Lawyer and a copy of the 16 page unanimous decision of the tribunal can be read here.

The invoice (partly revealed) with my educated guesses in green as to what’s behind the redactions is below. However it begs the question, why did Wirral Council redact this information and what have they got to hide? Or is it just a case of they’d prefer the press and public to forget about the entire Martin Morton/AKA issues which were compared to “Watergate” by Cllr Stuart Kelly? If they’d chosen not to appeal this decision wouldn’t that meant a saving of £1,872 that Wirral Council could have instead spent on education or social services? I thought that a Labour councillor (was it Cllr Phil Davies?) stated that the current Labour administration was “open and transparent”? Only as recently as June of this year wasn’t the Cabinet Member Cllr Ann McLachlan stating “the key problem here that we have a high volume of FOIs from a small number of people”? So do Wirral Council see the people making FOI requests as the problem rather than their own cultural attitudes towards openness and transparency?

Partially unredacted invoice relating to an appeal to ICO Decision Notice FS50474741 (Robin Hopkins of 11KBW) Metropolitan Borough of Wirral for £1872 (invoice 117)
Partially unredacted invoice relating to an appeal to ICO Decision Notice FS50474741 (Robin Hopkins of 11KBW) Metropolitan Borough of Wirral for £1872 (invoice 117)

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The incredible £754,783.18 that Wirral Council councillors cost (plus amounts for the Mayor & Deputy Mayor)

The incredible £754,783.18 that Wirral Council councillors cost (plus amounts for the Mayor & Deputy Mayor)

The incredible £754,783.18 that Wirral Council councillors cost (plus amounts for the Mayor & Deputy Mayor)

                      

To very little fanfare (compared to the local newspaper coverage that used to go with the annual publication of MP’s expenses), Wirral Council has published on its website what it paid each of its councillors for 2013-14 with a breakdown by basic allowance, responsibility allowance, telephone rental (although this is a £NIL amount for everyone on that list), expenses, subsistence, travel expenses and car mileage. Despite replying to a FOI request and stating this was part of Wirral Council’s “openness and transparency” it is in fact a legal requirement that they publish this information annually (if you’d like to leave a comment referring to the specific Act of Parliament or regulations that require them to do this feel free).

This list includes three people who aren’t councillors but are “independent persons” and are appointed by Wirral Council councillors. These three have a role set down in law in dealing with complaints about councillors. They are also co-opted on Wirral Council’s Standards and Constitutional Oversight Committee (whose next scheduled meeting has been cancelled).

Unlike the councillors none of these three get a basic amount, but receive £25 for each meeting they attend of the Standards and Constitutional Oversight Committee. In addition to this they are able to claim car mileage for meetings associated with their role. The annual amounts for these three are the smallest on the list being £90.80 (Dr. Burgess-Joyce), £122.40 (Brian Cummings) and £208.10 (RS Jones).

For the politicians, the lowest annual amount paid was to Cllr Matthew Patrick of £3,794.14. This is because he was only elected part way through that year in October 2013 in the Upton by-election. The by-election in Upton happened because of the death of Cllr Sylvia Hodrien, who also appears in the list receiving a part year amount of £4,373.84. Former Councillor Darren Dodd is the only other name to receive a part year amount of £6,019.11 as he resigned part way through the year and moved to Leeds.

The rest received the basic allowance of £8,712.48. In addition to this amount roughly half receive an extra responsibility allowance which for this financial year applied to thirty-three out of the sixty-seven councillors. An extra responsibility allowance is paid to the ten members of the Cabinet (generally an extra £9,171 although the Leader receives £22,927), chair of a committee, leader or deputy leader of a political group etc. The largest responsibility allowance paid was to Cllr Phil Davies of £22,926.96 (this is in addition to the basic allowance of £8,712.48). The smallest amount (that wasn’t £NIL) paid as a responsibility allowance was to Cllr Lesley Rennie of £203.38.

In total (the councillors and independent persons) claimed a total of £5,171.75 in car mileage payments, £490.99 in subsistence payments (this a meals allowance when they’re away from home for over four hours) and £1,684.64 in “expenses”.

The total cost (from this list) to the taxpayer for 2013-14 for the councillors and three independent persons was £754,783.18.

For some obscure reason I’m not really sure of, in earlier years the amount that the Mayor and Deputy Mayor are paid is published separately. This doesn’t seem to have been done yet this year (at the time of writing), but in 2012-13 came to a total of an extra £12,228.80. I would guess that the amount for the mayoralty in 2013-14 would be a similar amount to this.

A number of councillors also represent Wirral Council on outside bodies. There are two councillors who represent Wirral Council on the Merseyside Recycling and Waste Authority are paid an extra £1,834 each. These amounts are paid directly by Wirral Council to these councillors.

There are other outside bodies such as Merseytravel (four councillors from Wirral Council) and Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority (four councillors from Wirral Council). These two pay these councillors directly extra amounts for these extra responsibilities. A list similar to the one Wirral Council produces is published on their organisation’s website annually. These amounts are not included in this list from Wirral Council as such payments are made directly to councillors by those bodies rather than through Wirral Council.

A resolution to Council in previous years required Wirral Council to publish these extra amounts received too from bodies funded through the council tax such as Merseytravel, the Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority and until it was abolished and replaced with the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner for Merseyside & Police and Crime Panel, the Merseyside Police Authority.

As with the complicated scheme in place at Wirral Council, these amounts can vary quite considerably from a basic allowance that all receive to large amounts for the Chair.

Taking one public body, the figures for Merseytravel (which is now part of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority) haven’t been published on Wirral Council’s website for 2013-14, but the 2012-13 figures show that Wirral Council councillors received a basic allowance each of £5,202.13 (with part year payments to Cllr Blakeley and Cllr Foulkes), an extra special responsibility allowance for three councillors ranging from £1,095.38 to £4,063.29 as well as travel & subsistence payments ranging from nothing claimed to £997.99.

So, although the “cost of democracy” at Wirral Council is at least £754,783.18, in addition to this amount is the cost of the Mayor & Deputy Mayor and the currently difficult to find amounts councillors receive for representing Wirral Council on outside bodies (which Wirral Council should following a resolution agreed by Wirral Council publish on its website but in recent years hasn’t).

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Government asks councils in England to bid for £16 million of money to tackle fraud

Government asks councils in England to bid for £16 million of money to tackle fraud

Government asks councils in England to bid for £16 million of money to tackle fraud

 

Last month, the Department for Communities and Local Government invited local councils to make bids to it (closing deadline is 5th September 2014) for £16 million of money to help with counter fraud. This is not for the purpose of tackling benefit fraud (which is a different issue) but would be for projects to reduce the risk of for example the £45,779.46 Wirral Council lost in a care home fraud last year.

Certainly Wirral Council’s Counter-Fraud Team (considering the size of the organisation and complexity of its finances) isn’t very big. The last time somebody asked how big it was I think the answer was two. Since then I think at least one person has left who I assume was in counter fraud (although whether the post has been filled or left vacant as a way to save money I’m not sure). So as fraud is losing Wirral Council money and if they made a successful bid the money would not have to come out their existing budgets I hope Wirral Council does bid (although who knows)?

I know counter-fraud is at times a rather dull back office function and I doubt on the doorstep people are saying to political parties “You must do something about improving your counter fraud activities!”. However it is important, because although the risk of fraud may be small, the amounts can be large (some authorities have lost far larger amounts in frauds). Admittedly with the fraud referred to above Wirral Council admitted that the fraud was sophisticated and convincing but that staff hadn’t followed their internal rules to prevent this sort of thing happening. I think the staff involved were “subjected to disciplinary measures”.

However to make it as easy as I can for Wirral Council, here is a link to the application form and is a link to the nine pages as to what it is about and when they will get the money if their bid is approved. So, if you have any juicy tips about Wirral Council losing money to fraudsters (recently) or have some suggestions as to what they could do better to reduce the risk of fraud please leave a comment (even if it has to be anonymous)!

In the interests of open reporting here is a link to the DCLG press release about this.

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Open Democracy Project Phase 1: Dates of upcoming public meetings (18th August 2014 to 19th September 2014)

Open Democracy Project Phase 1: Dates of upcoming public meetings (18th August 2014 to 19th September 2014)

Open Democracy Project Phase 1: Dates of upcoming public meetings (18th August 2014 to 19th September 2014)

                                                               
Planning Committee (Wirral Council) 20th March 2014
A Planning Committee meeting at Wirral Council (20th March 2014), an example of one of the public meetings at Wirral Council and one now covered by the filming legislation

One of the questions I sometimes get asked is when public meetings are. In fact the numbers of the public turning up to public meetings (ranging from zero to over a hundred) was talked about at the last Standards and Constitutional Oversight Committee. I’m always pleased to see other members of the press or public at these meetings and I don’t mind if someone else is filming, tweeting, audio recording, photographing etc too (not that they are supposed to stop such things these days anyway).

If the press (whether that be newspapers, radio, TV, online or other) and public are able to exercise their new rights about filming however, they have to first know when and where the meetings are being held. The Wirral Council, Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority, Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, Police and Crime Panel, Mersey Port Health Committee and definitely some of the police ones do fall under the filming legislation.

Strangely (strange because other public bodies paid for through Council Tax, such as fire, police, Merseytravel, Combined Authority etc do fall under it), meetings of the Merseyside Recycling and Waste Authority don’t fall under the filming legislation, although they are public meetings. There are then a bunch of public meetings where it is “unclear” as to whether the filming legislation applies or not (something our legal department will have to look into and do some internal guidance on).

Usually public meetings are not very well advertised! Notice of them is usually published on an obscure page or two on a website (although obviously the people on the committee are told). If you really wanted to you could probably spend a lot of time going to them (although thankfully in August there are less of them). If anyone wonders if I’m going to be at them all, the answer is no (as at least two are on at the same time in different places).

As we’re halfway through August (and there are very few meetings in August so this would be a very short list) this list of public meetings also includes part of September. I have included training sessions too (although councillors would probably not appreciate it, if members of the press or public turned up to their training sessions so the location of such training meetings is not included but the titles, dates and times of the training sessions are).

Where available (at the time of writing) links to agenda & reports are included (and a brief bit about what the meeting is about if known (well there is some stuff I know about what these meetings are about but it would take too long to include here). Reports & agendas should be published (it’s a legal requirement) on the respective organisation’s website a week before the meeting is held. Room bookings however can be changed at short notice due to contingency plans. For example at Wirral Council if large numbers of people turn up and exceed the capacity of the room & overflow room, a previous meeting in the same room overruns or the situation that has happened in the past where two meetings are double-booked in the same room at the same time then the location of the meeting can change at short notice.

Meetings can be added (or cancelled) on an ad hoc basis, but in the case of the former a week of notice is usually given.

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Wirral Council (Metropolitan Borough of Wirral or Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council) (public meetings 18th August 2014 to 19th September 2014)

Thursday 21st August 2014 6pm Planning Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

agenda reports

Purpose of meeting is to decide on minutes, site visits, planning applications & AOB. Planning application for Tranmere Rovers training ground has already received some press coverage.

Friday 22nd August 2014 10am Licensing Panel, Committee Room 3, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Agenda Reports

Purpose: To decide on an application to register a Hackney Carriage Vehicle (GX51 OKL). Normally a decision made by officers (not councillors) but taxi failed its MOT so couldn’t be registered in time before licence expired.

Tuesday 26th August 2014 Constituency Committee – Wallasey Working Group, 7pm, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Wednesday 27th August 2014 Licensing Act 2003 Subcommittee, 10am, Committee Room 2, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Agenda Reports

To decide on an application for a premises licence for Westbourne Hall, Westbourne Road, West Kirby. To also decide on an application to vary a premises licence at KP Store, 338 Old Chester Road, Rock Ferry.

Monday 1st September 2014 Attainment Subcommittee, Committee Room 2, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED 6pm

Wednesday 3rd September 2014 Coordinating Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED 6pm

Thursday 4th September 2014 Licensing Act 2003 Subcommittee, Committee Room 3, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED, 10am Agenda Reports

Application to vary a premises licence The Courtyard, 7-9 Rose Mount, Oxton.

Thursday 4th September 2014 Cabinet (Special Meeting), 6.15pm, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Special meeting to make decision on options following consultation on closure of Lyndale School.

Monday 8th September 2014 5.30pm Councillor Training: “Regulatory Committees and What You Need to Know

Tuesday 9th September 2014 6.00pm Families and Wellbeing Policy and Performance Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Wednesday 10th September 2014 5.30pm Councillor Training: “Use of Social Media to Engage and Mobilise Your Community

Thursday 11th September 2014 6.15pm Cabinet, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Monday 15th September 2014 6.00pm Pensions Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Tuesday 16th September 2014 6.00pm Transformation and Resources Policy and Performance Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Wednesday 17th September 2014 6.00pm Constituency Committee – Wallasey Working Group, Committee Room 2, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Wednesday 17th September 2014 6.00pm Audit and Risk Management Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED

Thursday 18th September 2014 6.00pm Standards and Constitutional Oversight Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED – NOTE CANCELLED MEETING

Thursday 18th September 2014 6.00pm Coordinating Committee, Committee Room 1, Wallasey Town Hall, Brighton Street, Seacombe, CH44 8ED (Financial Monitoring call in from adjourned meeting on the 7th August 2014)

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Merseytravel (part of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority) from 18th August 2014 to 18th September 2014.

Merseytravel Committee, Thursday 4th September 2014, 2.30pm, Authority Chamber, 1st floor, Merseytravel Offices, No 1 Mann Island, Liverpool, L1 3BP

Performance and Review Sub Committee, Monday 15th September 2014 1.00pm, Authority Chamber, 1st floor, Merseytravel Offices, No 1 Mann Island, Liverpool, L1 3BP

Audit and Governance Sub- Committee, Monday 15th September 2014 3.00pm, Authority Chamber, 1st floor, Merseytravel Offices, No 1 Mann Island, Liverpool, L1 3BP

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Now for the list of Liverpool City Region Combined Authority meetings from 18th August 2014 to the 19th September 2014:

Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, 19th September 2014 11am, Authority Chamber, 1st floor, Merseytravel Offices, No 1 Mann Island, Liverpool, L1 3BP

Purpose: Business Enterprise Strategy, International Strategy, Rail Franchising and Rail North, Feedback on the Skills Show @ the IFB, Scrutiny Workplan, City Region Deal implementation update, Devolved funds implementation update, Budget monitoring

*Note I am unsure when the new overview and scrutiny committee for the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority has its first meeting or even from memory what exactly it’s called.

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Merseyside Fire and Rescue Authority (18th August 2014 to 18th September 2014)

Consultation and Negotiation Sub-Committee, Tuesday 2nd September 2014 1.00pm Wirral Suite, Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service Headquarters, Bridle Road, Bootle, Merseyside, L30 4YD

Performance and Scrutiny Committee, Thursday 4th September 2014 1.00pm Wirral Suite, Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service Headquarters, Bridle Road, Bootle, Merseyside, L30 4YD

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Merseyside Police and Crime Panel (host authority Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council) 18th August 2014 to 17 September 2014

Merseyside Police and Crime Panel, Thursday 4th September 2014 10.00am Council Chamber, Municipal Buildings, Huyton

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Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner for Merseyside (18th August 2014 to 17th September 2014)

*note it was much easier to find out this sort of information below in the Merseyside Police Authority days, although even they made mistakes from time to time and I had to remind them to update their website (which now no longer exists)!

Tuesday 9th September 2014 Performance and Scrutiny Group (approximately three hour meeting) Room G40, Merseytravel Authority Chamber, Merseytravel Offices, No 1 Mann Island, Liverpool, L3 1BP.

Audit Committee (no meetings during time period, next one is scheduled for 6/11/14)

Merseyside Community Safety Partnership (awaiting further information)

Merseyside Criminal Justice Board (awaiting further information)

VCFSE (Voluntary, Community, Faith and Social Enterprise) Network (awaiting further information)

Business Change & Efficiency (awaiting further information)

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Merseyside Recycling and Waste Authority (18th August 2014 to 17th September 2014)

Merseyside Recycling and Waste Authority (no meetings in time period, next is scheduled for 26/9/14)

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Mersey Port Health Committee (18th August 2014 to 17th September 2014)

Mersey Port Health Committee (no meetings in time period, next is scheduled for 16/10/14 11.00am (Liverpool)). Note host authority for the Mersey Port Health Committee is Liverpool City Council.

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There are probably other pan-Merseyside public meetings, NHS meeting etc in addition to the above. Other parts of Merseyside have their own local authorities which have meeting too, such as Liverpool City Council, Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council etc. I made the above list rather Wirral-centric though, but can provide links to the other local authorities’ calenders if required. When I get further information I will update with specifics, although with people being on holiday in August it may be some time before I receive a reply! I hope this list is of use to someone! If you want any further details about what these committees do, who’s on them, please leave a comment with your query as there may be other people with the same question! Thanks.

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Lyndale School Consultation Meeting: Cllr Dave Mitchell “They need the care they’ve got!” (part 9)

Lyndale School Consultation Meeting: Cllr Dave Mitchell “They need the care they’ve got!” (part 9)

Lyndale School Consultation Meeting: Cllr Dave Mitchell “They need the care they’ve got!” (part 9)

                                                  

Phil Ward (Wirral Council's SEN Lead) at a later meeting of Wirral Schools Forum 2nd July 2014 (who chaired the consultation meeting at Acre Lane on the 16th June)
Phil Ward (Wirral Council’s SEN Lead) at a later meeting of Wirral Schools Forum 2nd July 2014 (who chaired the consultation meeting at Acre Lane on the 16th June)

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Continues from Lyndale School Consultation Meeting: Tom Harney “it’s amazing the things that go on” (part 8).

This transcript starts about 1 hour and 4 minutes into the meeting.

PHIL WARD
Next question, ok, yes, thank you.

UNKNOWN SPEAKER (MALE)
I’d just … (unclear)… and this side here, listening to the people who are around who have been giving their opinions, errm frontline people who have all the experience of all the years of looking after the children and seeing all those who have those difficulties that have actually come about you know!? Why aren’t they sitting there? Why aren’t they sitting there telling you, what the nature of those problems are and …(unclear)…ing to you how they feel that it should be dealt with and what would be the best way? Why don’t you prefer no experience to (unclear).. key parts…(unclear)… when you’ve got people with loads of experience and anyway you’re not going to do it at the end of the day?

He received a round of applause.

COUNCILLOR DAVE MITCHELL
I’m going to make two points and one is that what is being proposed of the nature of, we need to go back and look at errm individual pupils and we need to do this before we take a democratic decision, before we decide.

The second point is really concerning those children, errm the children of Lyndale and the point Ian [Lewis] touched on earlier, is that moving the children from the Lyndale School to other schools, those are children with different sets of needs and can we invite all those Lyndale actions you know?

What I would like and the children who are at Lyndale, could we be, could we be learning from them? They need the care they’ve got! It’s (unclear)…and you know, I think the point is relevant for me, I think playing one off against the other and it’s a case of the children at the Lyndale, hopefully so we’ll still get the benefit of that, but the children themselves (unclear)… and then (unclear) …and then you have the ability to cause problems and I am really concerned about that! I’m really concerned about that.

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